Tyler Crook

[00:14:45]:
Guys, if I can — I’d like to start with one of my memorable recent reads of Tyler’s: his work with Jonathan Mayberry in Bad Blood. You know, being a horror movie fan, I very much enjoyed it because you and Jonathan handled such a heavy subject. And I always find it really impressive that in horror, there’s always a splash of humor. It’s like we have to find something to laugh about in the face of confronting true evil — or even something like this book, which is more about our own mortality. So — what was it like working on this book? We were talking about it before the show, so you might have to repeat a little bit.

Tyler Crook [00:15:53]:
Yeah. Well, that was a weird project for me. I basically — and I would not say so in so many words — but I knew I was not going to make any more BPRD books at that point, and I was like, I don’t know what I’m gonna work on. And this Bad Blood project just came up, and I leaped on it. And working with Jonathan Mayberry, he was so generous and patient with me, because I was a little bit of a mess, I think, while I was making that book. But this is my copy — I turned it into a hardcover case. [Shows book to camera]

Leo [00:16:37]:
Show it off again. Look at that!

Tyler Crook [00:16:42]:
So — this is my first book that I both colored and lettered. This is the first for both of those. And it was a challenge, because I had never watercolored a book like this before. Watercolor for me was always just sort of what I did in my sketchbooks and stuff. And they had asked me to color the book too, and I was like, I would love to, but I cannot sit in front of my computer and do that. Like, I just emotionally can’t take it. So I pitched them this approach, and I had to do a sample page or two, and they said okay. Then I did it — and it was a weird challenge. I didn’t have a good scanner at the time, so it was old school where I FedExed the pages to Dark Horse, and they scanned them and then sent them back to me to do some revisions. And it was a really good book. I don’t think it was until after I was done that I really started to appreciate what a great story it was and what it was about — just because I was so caught up in doing it as a job that I wasn’t evaluating the story as deeply as I should have. So yeah. No. It’s a book that I’m actually really, really proud of, and it was like a milestone for me as a comic book creator — one that I didn’t know was a milestone until well after it was done.

[PAGE DISCUSSION — BAD BLOOD HIGHLIGHTS]

Leo [00:18:28]:
Yeah. And I had a couple pages I wanted to point out as my favorite highlights. Kari, would you mind bringing them up? [Kari shares screen] Okay. This one killed me because — I sometimes have a real problem taking photographs because I feel like I show not enough teeth or too much teeth. So I just playfully smirk or do goofy faces. And you have this character dealing with some heavy shit, and his friend is trying to cheer him up. And this montage of things was amazing. The holding up the mask, having the arrow through his head, making the zombie face — it’s just so funny. And one image, so detailed yet very simple. So — was any of this you, or was this all Jonathan’s script?

Tyler Crook [00:20:02]:
No, that was all Jonathan. Like — getting the expressions on the face right is me, but the holding up the mask, having the arrow through his head, making the zombie face — that’s from the script. Yeah.

Leo [00:20:19]:
And just looking at it now — the line of drool is brilliant.

Kari [00:20:29]:
Yeah.

Leo [00:20:35]:
And then the next one — you know, it’s just the panel at the bottom that killed me. It’s what you don’t see that makes it great, but the expressions make it. And then the caption box: “This is me hunting vampires.”

Tyler Crook [00:21:07]:
Yeah. [Laughs]

Leo [00:21:26]:
What makes it for me is the reactions — we don’t need to see what she’s doing. You and Jonathan have basically implied it. But the reactions are just perfect.

Tyler Crook [00:21:29]:
Having the bra there too is a pretty heavy clue as to what’s going on.

Leo [00:21:33]:
[Laughs] Yeah. That just killed me.

Tyler Crook [00:21:39]:
I agree with you. I haven’t looked at this book in forever, and — I feel like that’s some nice staging. But in particular, I couldn’t tell you what the script said. I don’t recall. I bet a lot of that even is Jonathan’s script describing how that would be set up.

Leo [00:22:02]:
Yeah. And then — the next two pages — as a pop culture fan, I absolutely love this. Kari? [More pages shared]

Kari [00:22:17]:
Yeah — on the far right, on the bottom panel, there are the front guys, then the center ones, and then you have these guys kind of leering in with different little faces. But one guy’s just like — over the shoulder.

Tyler Crook [00:22:32]:
Over the shoulder guys? Yeah.

Leo [00:22:36]:
You got one over each shoulder. Like — yay. Yeah. It’s great.

Tyler Crook [00:22:44]:
That guy’s feeling pretty lucky to be there.

Kari [00:22:51]:
You have the best expressions. They just absolutely say what’s going on. You don’t really need that much of a script to go with it.

Leo [00:22:59]:
Yeah. So — and then the next one — they’re talking, and they’re trying to figure out, we don’t know what the fuck we’re doing. Like, they’ve both faced vampires, they’ve both lived, and they’re essentially considered unclean. But she lists: the Ghostbusters, the Frog Brothers, and advertising for vampire hunters on Craigslist. And I’m like — I’ve never thought I’d hear “Ghostbusters” and “the Frog Brothers” in the same breath.

Tyler Crook [00:23:51]:
Yeah. [Laughs]

Leo [00:23:52]:
And then of course there’s even a reference to Hellboy. And considering you’ve worked on Hellboy-related books — and being a huge Hellboy fan — I know stories where Hellboy’s dealt with vampires. But Buffy, the Scooby gang — I was done. And then what I also loved was what you did in the background — just this really “Night of the Living Dead, hold up in a sanctuary” feel to it, with the boards over the windows and everything looking so desolate.

Tyler Crook [00:24:23]:
Yeah. Well, that’s kind of based on an apartment a friend of mine lived in when I was in college. It was like a studio apartment where the bathroom wasn’t even in the room — it was down the hall. Privately owned by a slumlord. Oh, it was nasty. But it was cheap — like a hundred dollars a month, in Berkeley. So that was what it was based on. Obviously, the boards on the windows were added for this scene because they’re trying to keep the vampires out. But yeah.

Kari [00:25:09]:
In a lot of the rooms you do for people, you’re really good at capturing the environment. A lot of the characters who are into a punk rock scene — the posters you do — they might not be super detailed, but you have that vibe so down. I’m betting quite a few of those posters hung around in rooms you might have existed in here and there along the way.

Tyler Crook [00:25:50]:
Yeah. I don’t know if kids are as into it as they were when I was little, because nobody gets magazines anymore. But just about everyone I knew in high school — their walls were just posters, floor to ceiling, and then often all across the ceiling. Magazine cutouts and posters and all kinds of stuff. Yeah. So I’ve definitely done that a couple times. In fact, Bad Blood has another — I think the first panel is like that. Like, it’s got posters up on the ceiling, all up and down the wall.

Leo [00:26:45]:
Mhmm.

Tyler Crook [00:26:48]:
I know a lot of cartoonists complain about doing backgrounds, but I hardly ever think of them as backgrounds. They feel like the setting. And I always want to make the time and place of a story feel very, very clear and distinct. Because I think that’s so much of any story — it takes place in a very specific time and place. Almost all of my favorite books — the books that I’ve done that have been the best — like Petrograd, which is in a very specific time and place. Harrow County is in a very specific time and place. Out of Alcatraz is in a very specific time and place. Yeah. The setting is just really, really important to getting people immersed in the story.

Leo [00:27:46]:
Yeah.

Tyler Crook [00:27:57]:
I love stuff like — you look at the dresser in that first panel. It’s missing a knob, and it’s got a little bit of underwear sticking out. I love that stuff. I love tiny little details. I have a really hard time drawing a doorway without putting a ding on the door frame — where I’m like, this is where the couch came in and it went bonk, and they were like, “Oh, dang it.”

Leo [00:28:26]:
Well, it adds a little extra splash of realism, and it makes everything more tangible. Like you said — that’s what makes it real for you. And it’s like when someone tells you where an Easter egg is versus if you find it yourself. In your case, you’re telling it because you put it there, so we appreciate it more.

Tyler Crook [00:28:53]:
Well — and it’s also for me, it’s not stuff you’re supposed to consciously notice when you’re reading. You’re not supposed to be like, “Oh look, that knob is falling off the dresser.” It’s just supposed to be a bunch of small details that add up over time to create a world where people live — where things existed before the story started and will exist after the story is done.

Leo [00:29:17]:
Absolutely. And then yes — piggybacking off this one — the other panel is they actually put it on Craigslist. And they got responses: six hundred from Buffy or members of her Scooby gang, almost as many from one of Van Helsing’s descendants, a bunch from Kolchak, Angel — and of course, Hellboy. And most interesting: a vampire porn from Count Chocula with pictures. I was like — the internet is a foul, stupid place.

Tyler Crook [00:31:29]:
Yeah. And then black and white when we go to — yeah, I forgot — a character statement when he’s reading it on Craigslist.

Leo [00:31:38]:
Yeah. And then the next one — we’ve seen vampires getting staked before. They fade to dust, they explode. But you and Jonathan made it so that when you stake a vampire, they dissolve into rats. Or bugs. I was like — that’s gross. Okay. But just the image alone, and then you have the red shading — it is just fucking immaculate.

Tyler Crook [00:32:35]:
Thanks. Yeah. Looking at the image you put up — it looks a little more magenta reading it digitally. Like, my version is a little less pink, a little less magenta. But, yeah.

Kari [00:33:05]:
I watch you too much, so I notice all these little tidbits in your art. There’s just so much red in there, and only so many shades of red you can do without having something to make it pop off — that still works. You could have gone with the oranges, but then everything’s so warm in there. This gave it a cooler feel in that panel.

Tyler Crook [00:33:45]:
Yeah. Differentiates it so much more from the rest of the —

Leo [00:33:49]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Leo [Drew] — you’re not the greatest horror person, you know — and yet me and Kari kind of unconsciously torture you by having you read things that are a little gory. So, Leo — what did you think of this?

Drew [00:34:22]:
Actually, I couldn’t find this book. So —

Tyler Crook [00:34:25]:
Oh my god. [Laughs]

Leo [00:34:26]:
I’m sorry to put you on the spot, bud.

Tyler Crook [00:34:52]:
Well, if anyone’s having a hard time finding this — maybe Moth can tell me in the chat if it’s up on our web store or not. We have a lot of my books up there.

Leo [00:35:22]:
Yeah. And then the last panel I wanted to share — when they meet their vampire hunter, which totally gave me Whistler from Blade vibes. You and Jonathan basically explained how your version of vampires work, while these people are just cleaning up after stuff. And in one page, you explained everything you needed to. You could have done tons of flashbacks, but you guys kept it simple, and it worked.

Tyler Crook [00:36:41]:
Yeah. And that’s all Mayberry. That’s all his script and his concept for how vampires work.

Leo [00:36:52]:
And my last thing — this was the second time I’ve read something where vampires can’t drink a certain kind of blood because it’s been irradiated or whatever. Really interesting to see that be a plot line. And the primary villain — the head of the clan — looking so disgustingly grotesque as the book went on. So — was there anything that was a particularly hard challenge in Bad Blood, and how did you overcome it?

Tyler Crook [00:37:53]:
The real challenge with Bad Blood was just learning the ropes of doing a watercolor book. This is the very first book I ever did like this, where I was painting all the pages. And there was just so much that I learned. When you look at the beginning of the book, things are a little more blown out and not quite as focused — because I was scared to use too much paint. And then by the end of it, the colors are a lot more solid and everything feels a little better lit. So that was the big challenge, I think — just learning the production of how to do a comic like this.

Also — this was basically the second book where I had to create the look of the world. Because when I did BPRD, that world was already created for me before I even started. I was just playing with stuff that people had already invented. And the same was true for The Sixth Gun — that was something that already existed, and I was just along for the ride. But Bad Blood was the first one where I was designing characters, designing the world, figuring out how everything was gonna look. So that was definitely a big learning process.

And then, you know — when you work in watercolor, the scanning process and actually getting the artwork into the computer so it can be printed is a whole ordeal. I didn’t have a good scanner when I was working on this, so I had to FedEx my pages to Dark Horse for them to scan. Then they’d send me the digital files so I could do cleanup. I’ve since gotten a very nice scanner — an Epson, like, 11000 XL or something like that. I don’t even think they make that particular scanner anymore because I’ve had it for almost ten years.

Drew [00:41:05]:
What were the issues with watercolor and scanning? Was it resolution or the colors?

Tyler Crook [00:41:14]:
Yeah, it’s mostly color accuracy. Even the resolution can be tricky sometimes with lower scanners, because lots of times you’ll have a scanner that says it can scan at a certain dots per inch, but really, it scans at much lower and then algorithmically makes it bigger.

Drew [00:41:40]:
Upscaling. Yeah.

Tyler Crook [00:41:42]:
Yeah. But the real big thing is just color accuracy, because what happens with a lot of cheap scanners is it will just pick one color it likes and make it really, really bright. Then you can’t isolate it and take it back down to normal. You have to do a lot of work.

[SIDEBAR — FIRST JOB: JUNGLE RAGS]

Drew [00:42:23]:
I know I used to work for a t-shirt company, and we needed to scan something in for a special print. I can’t remember what scanner it was.

Tyler Crook [00:42:48]:
That was my first art job. I was working for a kids’ t-shirt company. Long, long gone, but they were called Jungle Rags. Their whole shtick was they had a patent on this design — it would be like an animal’s face on the front, like an alligator, but it had a flap that would be like their mouth. So you could open their mouth, and there’d be a little fish inside the alligator’s mouth. That was their whole deal. They sold it mostly to the tourist market, so someone would order shirts for their little shop in Maui, and my job was to prep the artwork to say “Maui” so they could screen print it on the already printed shirts.

Leo [00:43:39]:
Listen. We all have to start somewhere, man.

[SEGMENT 4 — LONESOME HUNTERS: WRITING FOR THE FIRST TIME]

Leo [00:43:47]:
That’s all I had on Bad Blood. Kari — did you wanna talk about The Lonesome Hunters?

Kari [00:43:55]:
Oh, I actually had something else on Bad Blood first. In the very beginning, we have the main character, who’s terribly sick with cancer, going through chemo treatments — and there’s an obvious difference in his appearance versus his friends. But I noticed that when they first encounter the real vampires, they all have the same pallid look as he does. Like they’ve been buried. They have this whole sickly sort of contour. And he eventually gets a little healthier — cancer and chemo go up and down — but it was really striking to me how much it was like: they’re undead, and that’s what he looks like. Death has definitely been hanging around him for a while.

Tyler Crook [00:45:13]:
Yeah. That’s a neat observation. I don’t remember if that was an intentional thing or not. But yeah — that totally tracks.

Kari [00:45:26]:
It’s like the the subcultural vampire humans had more of the goth look instead of really being sickly. They were “hot sickly.” Like, “I’m doing this to be the sexy vamp” instead of the “Oh my god, there are craters pouring out of my face” dead vamp.

Tyler Crook [00:46:07]:
Yeah. Well, I definitely did that intentionally — the humans who were into vampires looked a little bit more vampire-y. Like, they dressed a little more vampire-y than the actual vampires. And the actual vampires were a lot more earthy and wearing weird clothes that don’t really make sense. Like —

Leo [00:46:36]:
True outsiders.

Tyler Crook [00:46:38]:
Yeah.

Leo [00:46:39]:
I also just want to say — the moment where one of the characters is just covered in blood, and she’s like, “Oh my god, I have blood in my underwear.” I’ve worked in horror movies where we’ve covered people in so much fake blood. But her reaction — that’s a real person’s reaction. I was like, oh my god.

Tyler Crook [00:47:28]:
If it’s someone else’s blood, though — that can be disturbing.

[SEGMENT 5 — PETROGRAD: CAREER BEGINNING, RUSS MANNING AWARD]

Kari [00:48:11]:
You mentioned a couple of weeks ago you’re going through a “what would I do different” thing with Petrograd. And honestly, having that scale of a project be your breaking-into-comics moment. How was that — walking in and just going, this is my first thing?

Leo [00:49:19]:
Super daunting.

Tyler Crook

[00:49:21]:
Yeah. Well, I think that if I had known how hard and how long I would have to work on this project, I don’t think I would have had the courage to do it. I think the reason I was able to do this book was because I went in overly confident, and then my confidence dropped at the same rate that the pages were coming out. So by the time I was like, “I can’t do this” — the book was done. So it was, yeah — because I originally told my editor when I started that I thought I’d have this done in a year. And then it was two and a half years later that I finally wrapped it up.

And it was a lifesaver for me that I was in constant contact with my editors and turned in pages every week. If I had tried to turn in a quarter of the book at a time, it would have been impossible. But I was on a weekly schedule, trying to get somewhere between three and six pages done per week and just slowly, you know, treating it like a marathon. I managed to get through it. But yeah — if I had really understood how much work it would be, I would’ve chickened out and not done it. But luckily, I went in stupid. So I could come out smart, hopefully.

Kari [00:51:08]:
And it did great things for your career.

Tyler Crook [00:51:11]:
It did. I’m still really kind of surprised that — like you said in the intro — I won that Russ Manning Award. Showing Petrograd pages is what got me BPRD. I showed them to [Mike] Mignola. Yeah. It’s really incredible. In fact, I just did a signing in the Bay Area this weekend, signing at shops, and I was talking to Brian Hibbs. And I was like — when I was working on this, even when it was done, I would not have predicted that I would have a career in comics. I was sort of like, “This book will come out,” and I had not thought past that moment. You know? So I’m still just amazed that I’m still making comics, whatever, fourteen years later.

[PETROGRAD — PRODUCTION PROCESS: WATERCOLOR OVERLAY]

Kari [00:52:14]:
You explained this to us a couple of weeks ago — the way that overlay of shading was done, that orangey brown. That was because originally it was all black and white, wasn’t it?

Tyler Crook [00:52:38]:
I had done black and white, and the original plan was to do digital gray tones on it — so it wouldn’t be just straight black and white, it would have gray shading. And as we were approaching the finish line, there was some other book that Oni Press had published that year that was two-color — black with a spot color. And I loved it, and I was like, “We gotta do that for Petrograd.” And I did tests with digital shading, and then I did a watercolor test. And sort of everyone agreed, I think correctly, that the watercolor was the way to go.

The way I did it: I scanned in my black and white line art, then I’d print it out as a light blue onto one-hundred percent cotton resume paper — fancy pants resume paper. So I could see the image on it, and then I would do the shading really, really quickly in black watercolor. So everywhere you see brown, in the original shading art it’s black at that percentage. Then I scanned that back in, and in Photoshop I removed the blue, lined it up with the black line art, and turned the shading brown at that point. It’s a pretty involved production process, but it ended up being really, really fast. Because I’m not doing tight, tight shading — it’s all very loose and goes outside the lines a lot.

Drew [00:54:44]:
It certainly adds to the atmosphere of the book.

Tyler Crook [00:54:48]:
Yeah. Thanks.

Kari [00:54:53]:
It really adds and makes it feel aged.

Tyler Crook [00:55:02]:
And in the digital version, it’s on white. But the printed version is on a slightly creamy paper too, which is really nice — to make it feel a little bit older.

Kari [00:55:16]:
And this was rereleased again, wasn’t it?

Tyler Crook [00:55:21]:
Yeah. We did a ten-year anniversary for it in 2021, that has a new cover and stuff.

[SEGMENT 6 — LONESOME HUNTERS: WRITING, CRAFT, CHARACTERS]

Kari [00:55:30]:
Okay. So let’s hop over now to The Lonesome Hunters, because we need to talk about your comic — that you made and wrote and did everything for — that all of us are in love with. It’s beautiful. What was it like getting to write for the first time — for your own stuff — and just being like, “This is mine”?

Tyler Crook

[00:56:11]:
Writing for the first time. Well, first off — I should say that I started working on The Lonesome Hunters in, I think, the end of 2012 or 2013. And then it didn’t come out until 2022, I think. So it was at least ten years that I was sort of thinking about this book. And as far as writing goes — it took me ten years to be able to write that first issue. It was that difficult. And it took me a long, long time to build up the confidence to actually feel like I could do it.

But fortunately, I’ve worked with so many great writers. John Arcudi, Cullen Bunn, Jonathan Mayberry, Jeff Lemire — just really, really top-notch writers in my career. And so I feel like I learned a lot from working with them, and was able to sort of use that experience to help me figure out how to write this book.

Leo [00:57:32]:
And it was such a great story. I especially enjoyed the spookier elements. Like, I’m now extra trepidatious of magpies. I was already cautious after reading a lot of Hellboy about crows — you know, that definitely hammered the ominousness. But I’m definitely going to be concerned about leaving anything shiny. Because the magpie might start talking and take it away from me — or sit on my head and possess my body. So I’m just gonna avoid birds.

Tyler Crook [00:58:07]:
Magpies are fine, as long as you don’t steal from them.

Leo [00:58:12]:
Yes. As you noted, they’re not too fond of that one.

Kari [00:58:17]:
You have to salute or wave to the magpie if you see a lone one over in the UK. It’s “One for sorrow” — or you ask it, “Hello, Mister Magpie, how is your wife?” So that you’re addressing two magpies, and you have mirth instead of sorrow.

Tyler Crook [00:58:36]:
Oh — because you’re addressing it, you are —

Kari [00:58:37]:
A single magpie. Yeah. That’s something I learned.

Leo [00:58:41]:
[About the Lonesome Hunters cover] Okay. This is just gorgeous.

Kari [00:59:15]:
Yeah. When the color schemes and everything going with — like, pulling the light into the reflection on the wall and coming back out — this is just such a gorgeous shot.

Tyler Crook [00:59:15]:
Thank you. That was — I do remember when I was writing that, and I was trying to figure out — how am I gonna make a magpie scary? Like, it’s just a kind of a medium-sized bird. And having them possess you — because if you go to the next page… actually, it’s not till the second issue. Sorry. Spoilers.

Kari [00:59:46]:
That’s okay. I wanna show a couple things from the second issue. [Shows cover for issue two] Very fond of that cover too.

Tyler Crook [00:59:54]:
Yeah. That cover for issue two — I’m really proud of that.

Kari [01:00:01]:
Yeah. And the splatter on this is beautiful.

Kari [01:00:08]:
I love the next page as well because of the rich background — and those little bits of splatter help set off everything else. The light isn’t quite white — it’s a yellow you have going there — but you know, if it wasn’t there, it wouldn’t be quite as bright of a painting.

Tyler Crook [01:00:41]:
Yeah. The little white splatters work so good — like, there’s light coming through the air and it’s catching stuff that’s in the air. And it’s also a little bit of a crutch, you know — if you look at that big tree just off to the right of center, when I drew that, there are maybe ten lines making that whole tree, and the rest is made up of splatter. All the texture of that bark is just from splatter, which is kind of a cheat instead of having to actually draw it all.

Kari [01:01:21]:
But it works. So it’s not so much cheating as a technique you’ve turned into an exceptionally effective tool.

Tyler Crook [01:01:30]:
Well, thank you.

Leo [01:01:31]:
And I will say this — anytime I saw the sword in this, I was like, this man spent a lot of time in the Mignolaverse. Because anytime Mike [Mignola] would ever draw a sword, it’s very distinct. It’s always big and bulky, and it just always looks heavy. Like, you can imagine — this would not be like, “Oh yeah, I can just pick it up” — it’s like, “Oh fuck, this is heavy.” And just seeing this old man clutching this artifact that he is just so scared to lose — this is just awesome.

Tyler Crook [01:02:31]:
Yeah. Well, I think Mike and I had the same problem, because the main sword in Hellboy is that one from — what do they call it — from when the Ogdru Hem were originally on the earth or whatever.

Leo [01:02:51]:
Yeah. I know what you’re thinking of. I was like, damn it, like, you’re a fan and you can’t even name the sword. [Laughs]

Tyler Crook [01:03:01]:
So we sort of have the same issue — this sword is also supposed to be super ancient, so we both had to figure out how to make a sword that looks like it was invented before swords were a thing. Nobody knew how to make a sword when they made this one, so this was their best guess.

Kari [01:03:20]:
And it’s a king-slayer, a horse-stopper sort of thing. I really wanted to pull attention to the page on the right with your lettering — the motion on the swish, the little tiny “trip,” and then the landing on the “thump” — are all just brilliant and so much fun. It’s a very intense moment, but it adds to the whole thing as you go through it.

Tyler Crook [01:04:14]:
Hopefully, when people read this — you know, so many stories we get nowadays are like: this guy is the best who ever did it, and he comes out of retirement, and oh, look, he’s still the best that ever did it. John Wick-style. And I am in love with characters that are trying their hardest but aren’t good at the thing — but have to find a way to get through it even though they don’t know what they’re doing, even though they trip over their own feet.

Leo [01:04:52]:
Right.

Tyler Crook [01:04:56]:
And — to talk about your sound effect love, Kari — I also love sound effects. I’ve always tried really hard to do the sound effects in the art, as opposed to leaving it to the letterer. And I feel like they need to be as integrated as possible. And there’s that sound effect in panel four that is one of my favorite kinds of little sound effects — where it just says “TRIP.” The sound it makes is the thing that it is. And that always cracks me up.

Kari [01:05:27]:
Yeah.

[LONESOME HUNTERS — HOWARD & LUPE, ANIME SCENE]

Leo [01:05:33]:
And another moment I love from this — when they’re in the car traveling and Lupe is describing her favorite anime to Howard, and he’s just politely enduring it.

Tyler Crook [01:05:46]:
Right. His favorite anime. [Laughs]

Leo [01:05:48]:
Yeah. And literally, I very much sympathize — because anytime I’m traveling with Kari, this is our dynamic. I’ll be talking about this thing, and she’s just like, “Sounds nice. Sounds cool. What’s the protagonist? What do they do?” Like, just very simple questions, and I’m like — I’ll tell you, it’s great, you’ll love it. Like, do you care? But she does. It’s just that I feel like anybody who’s ever been super enthusiastic about something had that moment with someone older, like a grandparent. I had that moment trying to explain the X-Men to my grandmother, and I’ve never seen someone try so hard to sound interested but really not caring.

Tyler Crook [01:06:50]:
Yeah. Well — I guess I don’t remember this, but my mom has reminded me of it a few times, because it’s a cute story. When I was like thirteen or fourteen, I started reading Mage: The Hero Discovered by Matt Wagner. That’s still one of my favorite comic book series — it was very formative for me. And I was so into it that I took it to my mom, and I was like, “Mom, you have to read this because I need somebody to talk to about this comic. And you’re the only person I can think of who will actually sit down and read it.” And she did — she sat down and read it so we could talk about it.

Leo [01:07:32]:
Nice.

Tyler Crook [01:07:33]:
And some of that was the inspiration for that scene. But the scene specifically was — I wanted a moment where Lupe was sharing something very personal to herself, and Howard — because Howard doesn’t give a shit about Mecha Saber Gemini. He really doesn’t care. But he loves that there’s somebody with him who’s sharing something that they love. And he’s just soaking in the fellowship of being with somebody who’s excited about something in the world. Because that’s far from Howard’s experience in life in this story.

Leo [01:08:23]:
Absolutely. And then later, they’re in that hotel room, and they’re watching it together. And he’s actually asking questions — “What is going on here?” And she’s explaining the lore. I was just like, my god.

Tyler Crook [01:08:40]:
Yeah. It’s an anime about mecha guys, and he’s like, “I thought it would be more like a Disney film.”

Leo [01:08:46]:
Yeah. And it’s literally me watching Batman with my father. Everything is always, “Oh, yeah, but Christian Bale…” And I’m like, “No. No. No. Adam West, but there was so much more to Batman.” And he was like, “Yeah, but…” — okay, dude.

Tyler Crook [01:09:09]:
Yeah. I mean, I remember asking my mom — when I was a pretty young kid — if the Adam West Batman was intentionally funny. Because I thought maybe that was just the dumb stuff that old people liked back in the day.

Leo [01:09:25]:
Right. Well, let me tell you — having met the man once in my life, he was pretty fucking funny. And when I asked him what his favorite line was, he said, “Well, you know, that mayor in Gotham City — he’s a real hoot.” And I was just like, I can’t. Even your answers are hysterical, Mayor West. Thank you.

[HOWARD & TINA — EMOTIONAL MOMENT]

Leo [01:09:47]:
And — I gotta give you credit for this — I think it’s where Howard is trying to apologize to Tina. And he’s basically trying to apologize for being an absentee dad, and she doesn’t let him. And you just have that moment of silence between both of them. I was like, wow. That is just heartbreaking.

Tyler Crook [01:10:33]:
Yeah. There’s more to that relationship — if I can ever get back to Lonesome Hunters. Because Howard isn’t actually her dad. They just knew each other from long ago. Howard is actually really good friends with her mom.

Leo [01:10:45]:
Well, it just had that absentee dad regrets vibe. And it was just — the book has a lot of different threads, but you juggled them so well. The crazy weird shit, and then this younger person, and this surrogate parent who’s not really taking care of you, and this weird thing that unites them.

Tyler Crook [01:11:34]:
Thank you very much. Yeah. I had so much fun writing The Lonesome Hunters. It’s probably my favorite thing I’ve ever done.

Kari [01:11:45]:
And everybody’s really hoping it gets picked up by somebody now.

Tyler Crook [01:11:50]:
Yeah. It’s one of those things where I’ve had to work on a bunch of other projects in the meantime, but I am slowly picking away at it. I have the first issue of a third arc about halfway laid out and stuff. But it’s a whole process at this point.

Leo [01:12:05]:
Well, hey — other things have been picked up for less. And in my head, I’m like — if it gets a third arc, let’s go. But yeah — it’s fantastic. And I hope you get to tell more, because even just The Wolf Child with that little heartbreaker was just —

Kari [01:12:35]:
Just —

Leo [01:12:36]:
Yeah. The kind of weird tragedy I have become way too used to when reading Hellboy. I was like, “Oh no. Don’t go into those woods. I’ve seen where this goes.” And then — you know what? I’m not gonna spoil anything. But some people didn’t come out alive.

[SEGMENT 7 — OUT OF ALCATRAZ]

Kari [01:13:14]:
So we have kept Tyler here for just over an hour and fifteen minutes, and we have not actually even started talking about Out of Alcatraz yet. But we also haven’t let Drew speak at all.

Drew [01:13:29]:
It’s tough to get in there, but — yeah. I know we’re running out of time, but I wanted to make sure we did touch on Out of Alcatraz. So Tyler — this came out recently. Could you explain to everybody watching what Out of Alcatraz is?

Tyler Crook

[01:13:49]:
Out of Alcatraz is inspired by a true-life event. In 1962, three men escaped from Alcatraz Prison. Basically, they used raincoats and made a raft and life jackets for themselves, and they found a way to burrow through their cells into a gap in the walls. There’s a whole film called Escape from Alcatraz that covers it in a lot of detail. But our story sort of picks up with them after they’ve left the island and made it across the bay to land. The official story is that these guys died in San Francisco Bay — and that’s the end of it. But our story explores the idea: what if they didn’t die? What if they made it to land? And it starts to explore — you know, they’ve escaped, but how can they be free? Because: what are you gonna do once you’ve escaped from Alcatraz? So yeah. That’s basically what it is. It’s about a bunch of people trying to figure out how to be free. It’s set in 1962 California — a very noir story. But it’s, like, a weird time in California where the civil rights movement is just starting to gather steam. The summer of sixty-nine won’t happen for another seven years. But the things that lead up to the counterculture are already bubbling underneath the surface. And I think it’s a good book. I’m so happy with this. Working with Chris Cantwell on this has been a dream. It’s been so fun.

Leo [01:15:59]:
And it paces itself very well. It felt very much like one of those old Turner Classic kind of projects — that old-fashioned pacing. And then the long shots — it’s just amazing. Something like this is very cinematic. The characters are very well established — fantastic.

Tyler Crook [01:16:46]:
Yeah. I think this — more than any other book I’ve ever worked on — this one was inspired by movie and TV stuff.

Drew [01:16:55]:
Well —

Tyler Crook [01:16:57]:
I hadn’t really done a crime thing before, you know. So I was a little nervous going into it, and I started watching a lot of noir movies and reading a lot of noir books. And man — I loved it. There’s something about it — I basically ended up treating it a lot like a horror book without a monster in it. The monster is the characters. The monster is the thing they’re trying to get away from.

Kari [01:17:35]:
Those ocean shots in the beginning were crazy.

Tyler Crook [01:17:39]:
Thanks. Those are inspired by — I wanted to make it feel like you were in the raft with them. But it’s also very much inspired by TV shows. When there was a show from the seventies and eighties where anyone had to get lost at sea — they couldn’t afford to take a camera out to the ocean and wait for a storm to come. So it was all filmed in a swimming pool on the Universal back lot with people throwing buckets of water and the camera just shaking like crazy. So I was sort of trying to get that feeling with the scene.

Drew [01:18:32]:
Do you know if Cantwell, before he wrote this, looked at any of the new research for Alcatraz?

Tyler Crook [01:18:42]:
I don’t know specifically what research he did or how old it is. I know he researched the hell out of it, though. Because one of the things about it — most of the research you can do about Alcatraz is based on how they escaped and whether or not they made it. And there’s stuff like — there was a car stolen on Angel Island that night that the FBI basically decided they were gonna ignore. And there was a ship captain who reported seeing a body washed out to the ocean, but the FBI never followed up with them. And it really looks like one of those things where the authorities had set up Alcatraz to be like: the people we put in here are the worst of the worst, and no one will ever escape from there. And we, the authorities, are infallible.

But really, most of the convicts at Alcatraz were sort of petty criminals who kept escaping from other prisons. Like, Frank Morris — the main character here — he had escaped from prison before, and that’s what got him sent to Alcatraz. And I think the brothers, Clarence and John, also escaped from prison, and that’s why they got sent to Alcatraz. Don’t quote me on that one, though. But definitely Frank Morris was there because he was a repeat prison break guy. Not even really, really bad — like, not murderers and terrorists. These were petty criminals who just didn’t wanna be in prison. So they kept escaping.

One of the things about this escape is — the authorities didn’t want to admit that you could escape from Alcatraz. Although they did shut it down within about a year and a half of this escape. And then when they couldn’t find these guys, they didn’t wanna admit that the people they’d told the world were the worst of the worst were just running around. So they just covered it up. At least, that’s sort of the appearance of it.

But our story is more about the psychological and emotional drama — how do you be free once you’re out of the frying pan and into the fire? And they’ll meet a lot of people along the way who are also trying to get free in their own way, and people who are happy to take advantage of people who have limited options in life.

Leo [01:22:05]:
Yeah. Makes sense.

Drew [01:22:08]:
You talked earlier about building atmosphere with your art. And I think you really captured it with this one. I’m a history buff, and there was a recent story about the Alcatraz escape. You mentioned Angel Island — how they now think that maybe they drifted a little further down and actually made it to the island. Reading this and taking in your art — it felt engrossing. You really captured the time.

Tyler Crook [01:22:57]:
Oh, thank you so much. I put a lot of effort into that. Some of it was easy, like getting the period cars right — and drawing cars was hard for me, but I feel like I got way better as the series went along. There was stuff that was more challenging, like — later in the book, they end up in Redding, California. And we had reference for what the police station in Redding looked like, and I was like, “Oh, I’m gonna find more photos so I can get a different angle if I want.” And in doing that, I discovered that the one we were planning on using didn’t become the police station until 1974. So then I had to go searching to find out what the real police station looked like in 1962 — and I ended up calling the Redding Public Library and talking to a wonderful librarian there. And she went and found a locally published history magazine that had a photo of it. It was not at all what I was expecting, so I would have never come up with it on my own. But we got it right for the book.

Yeah — we worked really hard to make it be a period piece. And like I was saying earlier, the setting is so much of what it means to make these immersive. If it’s wrong, it’s wrong, and it just won’t feel right.

Kari [01:24:57]:
Like, that final little shot there with the sun coming up as they’re settling in through there.

Tyler Crook [01:25:04]:
That’s basically as far as they — well, they have more of a plan, but that was the hard part. Finally, they’re in their street clothes. Nobody knows where they are. Sun’s coming up. What’s gonna happen next?

Drew [01:25:20]:
And how many issues is this planned for?

Tyler Crook [01:25:24]:
It is five issues, and the first issue is double-sized — forty-four pages. I’m almost done with the final issue. I’m on page nine right now. I’ll be done with that in the next two weeks or so. It’s very exciting. It’s been a long time coming.

Drew [01:25:57]:
Just a reminder for everybody — issue one is out now. So definitely hit your LCS and pick up a copy.

Tyler Crook [01:26:12]:
And I’ve heard — my editor went to her local shop, and it was already sold out. But they told me yesterday that they’re going back to print for it. So there should be a second printing coming soon if your shop doesn’t have it.

Drew [01:26:29]:
That’s awesome. I’m seeing a lot of positive comments about it online too.

Tyler Crook [01:26:36]:
Yeah. Me too. It feels really nice. Like, lots of times you put out books and — in spite of your best efforts — it just sort of comes out and some people read it and most people don’t, and it sort of just plugs along like that. But Out of Alcatraz really feels positive. The release of the first issue has been really, really positive. I’m really excited about it.

Drew [01:27:07]:
Well, we’re excited for you, and we definitely want you to have the most success on this. It was a good read, and I can’t wait to see issue two.

Kari [01:27:18]:
It’s a nice turn for you — having the crime thing going on. And it’s still got all those dark elements in it, so it’s gonna be so much fun.

[WRAP-UP AND FINAL SECTION]

Kari [01:27:36]:
This is that hour-and-a-half moment of —

Drew [01:27:40]:
Yeah. We definitely wanna be respectful of your time. Sorry for keeping you an hour and a half, but —

Tyler Crook [01:27:47]:
I think I could go a little bit longer if you guys wanted to. Or if you wanna wrap up, I’m happy to wrap up too.

Leo [01:27:53]:
Oh, stay! Stay!

Tyler Crook [01:28:11]:
It’s been a pretty far-reaching interview. Going all the way back to Bad Blood was pretty fun. I hadn’t flipped through Bad Blood in a long time — that was really neat.

Tyler Crook [01:28:24]:
I’m always relieved when I look back at my old work and it looks better than I remembered it. You know? Like, I have that distance of time, and I can sort of look at it a little bit more objectively. And I’m sort of like, “Oh, this is alright. This is kinda cool.”

Leo [01:28:38]:
Pretty nice.

Kari [01:28:41]:
The purple zombie is still good. I just gotta let you know that. I really enjoyed that. Even though you didn’t like it.

Tyler Crook [01:28:53]:
Kari’s talking about — on one of my live streams, I got a new purple paint and wanted to try it out. And I did a painting of a zombie. [Shows painting] So I did this zombie. It’s like — it’s okay, it’s fine. But when I got started on it, I had a vision in my head for it looking way cooler than it turned out.

Leo [01:29:21]:
That looks good!

Tyler Crook [01:29:23]:
That’s always the challenge as an artist — when you have a picture in your head and it doesn’t end up on the paper, it can be very disappointing. Even if it turns out great — because you missed the thing you were aiming for. You know?

Leo [01:29:40]:
You’ll find it.

Tyler Crook [01:29:42]:
Yeah.

Leo [01:29:42]:
When we don’t succeed, we paint again. That’s how it goes.

[SEGMENT 8 — WHAT HE GEEKS OUT ABOUT: MUSIC PRODUCTION]

Drew

[01:34:26]:
What is something — when you’re not drawing or writing — what do you dork out about? Like, what do you do to unwind? Do you watch movies? Play video games? Build models? What do you do?

Tyler Crook [01:34:49]:
My probably biggest hobby is making music. I write and record a lot of songs. I actually did a whole Harrow County soundtrack — like, the soundtrack to the comic. It’s on Bandcamp if you just search Harrow County on there. And it’s streaming just about everywhere except Spotify. So if you wanna stream it, you can.

But yeah — I like making music a lot. And I like musical gear and stuff. I’ve been really geeking out for the last year or two — I got an MPC, which stands for Music Production Center. That’s the thing you’ve seen for hip-hop — sixteen pads, finger drumming, you can load up samples. And I’ve been geeking out on building music through sampling. Like, I like setting up microphones and sampling myself banging around in the garage and stuff like that. Yeah — that’s sort of my geeky thing. Every once in a while I’ll post on Bluesky about it, and nobody knows what the hell I’m talking about. Because I’ll be like, “Oh, they gotta do firmware for my MPC” — and nobody knows what I’m saying.

Drew [01:36:16]:
I had one of them back in the nineties — like, an old drum machine, electronic drum machine. That was a lot of fun.

Tyler Crook [01:36:28]:
Do you remember what kind?

Drew [01:36:31]:
No. It’s been too long.

Tyler Crook [01:36:36]:
Yeah. I have music gear that I got rid of, and I’ll still go online and look at it — like I’m stalking an ex-girlfriend sort of thing. I had a reel-to-reel recorder called the Tascam 388. It was like a real reel-to-reel recorder that laid flat on the table, but it had a whole mixer attached to it. This thing weighed seventy pounds and was like three and a half feet across. And when we moved out of California, we just didn’t have a place for it. So I gave it to a friend of mine. And every once in a while, I’m like — fuck, I wish I could get that back so bad.

Drew [01:37:22]:
Have you looked on eBay?

Tyler Crook [01:37:26]:
Right? Yeah. I originally bought mine for $500, and those go for three or four thousand dollars nowadays.

Kari [01:37:33]:
Wow. Oh wow.

Tyler Crook [01:37:34]:
Yeah. I need something to get turned into a movie so I can get another one.

Drew [01:37:40]:
There we go — Harrow County the movie.

Tyler Crook [01:37:42]:
Harrow County the movie. Get Tyler his Tascam 388.

Kari [01:37:47]:
It would make a great streaming series, too. Maybe not Netflix, but — it would make a great streaming series.

Tyler Crook [01:37:58]:
Yeah. Yeah. Alright.

[OUTRO — DREW’S SNAKE STORY, FAREWELLS]

Leo [01:38:02]:
Well, again — Tyler, thank you so much for joining us, man. It’s been absolutely great. And good luck on all the cons and everything you’re working on. Kari will keep us updated on everything you’re doing.

Kari [01:38:17]:
I do. Good.

Leo [01:38:19]:
But thank you so much for joining us. Seriously, best of luck with everything, man.

Tyler Crook [01:38:24]:
Thank you so much. My pleasure.

Leo [01:38:24]:
[To Jeremy/Jar Jar] Jeremy, we’re still going. God.

Tyler Crook [01:38:27]:
My pleasure.

Leo [01:38:28]:
Sorry. I’m sorry — that is very nice. It’s just somebody had to make a comment.

Tyler Crook [01:38:33]:
Well, thanks guys. Thanks so much for having me. It was really nice to talk to you. And it was fun to talk to you and see your face, Kari.

Kari [01:38:39]:
Yes. I will talk to you on Friday. Okay. Alright. Bye, guys. Have a good night. Bye. Bye.

Leo [01:38:47]:
[To Drew, post-show] We’re gonna talk about interview etiquette. Because sometimes, I swear to God, me and you are oil and vinegar in such a way.

[POST-SHOW — hosts only]

[No additional content captured after Tyler’s goodbye.]