Philip Kennedy Johnson

Full Interview Transcript

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:00:00]: Hey, everybody. I'm Philip Kennedy Johnson, writer of Batman, Superman, and the Incredible Hulk. You're watching Splash Pages.

Kari [00:00:09]: Hey, it's Tuesday, and it is.

Jeremy [00:00:12]: Philip Kennedy Johnson's with us tonight.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:00:14]: Yay. What's up, guys? Good to see you again.

Kari [00:00:17]: Good to see you too, Philip.

Drew Mollo [00:00:19]: Thank you so much for coming back, man. We really appreciate it. How are you doing?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:00:22]: Sure, I'm well. Things are good. Things are busy, but — yeah, getting ready to go to New York Comic Con this week.

Jeremy [00:00:28]: Yeah. Are you tabling all weekend?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:00:33]: I am, yeah.

Drew Mollo [00:00:34]: He's gonna be tabling and signing all weekend because he's got some exciting things, which we are definitely going to get to in a minute. So we got a lot to — again, we're all reading your stuff, Philip, so, you know, a lot to touch on. The first thing, just briefly, I wanted to bring up is, again, you are just killing it with Batman and Robin. I mean, the stories have just been fantastic. And I was saying this to Kari earlier, like, I — every time — I don't think that there can be any new Batman villains because I'm like, Gotham is big enough. Like, can we just, you know. But Memento Mori was such a great villain, and how you weave the history of the villain with Batman's history, the history of Gotham, was just fantastic. But the one thing I especially loved was your reference to No Man's Land with the old Gotham that's underground as a result of that. And again, I love when that happens because I feel like sometimes with comics, the reboots just kind of ignore these stories, and No Man's Land is fantastic. Amazing Batman story.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:01:47]: Yeah, it was a fun opportunity to use it. I wanted to use elements of No Man's Land, but also from the games. Have you guys played the Arkham games?

Drew Mollo [00:01:56]: Yes.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:01:57]: Yeah. There was — if you remember, there was the — what do they call it? What do they call that old neighborhood in that — in Arkham City? Is that the Wonder — Wonder City. Right.

Drew Mollo [00:02:07]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:02:08]: So, yes, I really wanted to use that. Yeah, sort of — it was like a — it seemed like a nod to the World's Fair that was in the — the fantastic — and I wanted something like that in this book as well. Like a really old neighborhood that had kind of been paved over.

Drew Mollo [00:02:30]: Yeah, it was just a wonderful place to kind of serve as his nefarious hideout. And then, of course — something that I — Kari, our co-host Mahanna, who couldn't be here — you included Etrigan, which, again, you don't think — why would Batman, who's a man of science and whatnot, team up with a demon? But he just made it work. I mean, it was fantastic.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:03:00]: Thank you.

Jeremy [00:03:01]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:03:01]: That was part of the reason that I wanted Memento to rhyme the whole time. Like, the fact that Memento speaks in verse, that Etrigan speaks in verse — rather, I wanted Memento to do that as well, to kind of keep the open question of whether he could be a demon as well. And it set up this really fun interrogation of Etrigan and Jason Blood that I wanted to see. The fact that Jason Blood is a Gotham-based character — you don't see him that much. I thought it'd be a fun opportunity to kind of show an interrogation in the city.

Jeremy [00:03:34]: How difficult is it to write in that kind of dialogue where you're just rhyming the whole time? Like, are you sitting there with the thesaurus the whole time going, okay, I got this?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:03:46]: Not so much. I — there was — occasionally I'll turn to something like that, but it's — I don't know, man, I just love it. Like, it is time consuming kind of — it takes a little bit more time than it would to do regular dialogue. But that kind of thing was always something that kind of drew me into Tolkien's work. Like, when Tolkien would include original songs and stories and things in his own — like, within the body of the work that he was doing — it made the work, it made the whole story feel so much more lived in and — I don't know, just had a cool little bit of texture that I just loved.

Drew Mollo [00:04:20]: Yeah. And that kind of reminds me of something that I remember reading about why writers in the Batman animated series really stopped using the Riddler so much. It wasn't just because the character was so great. They're like, we're getting stumped trying to come up with really good riddles. Like, come on. We need a break. Our brains are hurting.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:04:44]: Yeah, when there's some kind of a cool framing device like that — after a while, it could be tricky to keep it feeling good. And that wasn't — there was an element of it. Again, when I first started this out with the Memento from the jump, I wanted all the different rhymes to feel like they're all coming from the same person, but after a while, there were so many — I was like, man, maybe I should have changed the meter a little bit. Like, the rhymes were all like A, A, B, B, A, right? Like — eight syllables of one rhyme. Eight of the same rhyme —

Drew Mollo [00:05:29]: Right.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:05:30]: Four of a different one. Four of that second one, and then eight again. After a while, I was like, damn, is this getting repetitive? Like, at this point, there were so many — I was like, damn, I wish I had switched it up more throughout the whole story so that it was — there are other things I would have liked to have done. I really like the rhymes in Jabberwocky by Lewis Carroll. And I would have worked some of those in there if I had to do it over again. But after a while, it would have felt like, why is he changing it now? It's already been the same the whole way through, so it felt best to kind of just stick with it.

Kari [00:06:04]: I think it flowed well, though. It didn't — you were worried about repetitive, but it didn't — and it — sure, it made us feel like it was the same person, but it didn't feel like, oh, my God, this is taking forever. This is —

Jeremy [00:06:17]: Yeah.

Kari [00:06:17]: Redundant. It felt really good. Good seeing those. Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:06:22]: Yeah, it's so important that those feel good, that they don't feel like eye-rolly, you know, because I've read stories in the past where there's some kind of a thing like that, and if they're not good, man, it's distracting. So there was a lot of pressure to get those, to make those solid.

Drew Mollo [00:06:37]: And even with the new arc you're doing, which I believe is called The Quiet Man — yeah — one of the things — again, what I love about your arc is that you take the time for these little moments that are so — like, they always strike me as just so unintentionally funny, but yet they're still very in character. I think it was one of them — Bruce and —

Kari [00:07:04]: And —

Drew Mollo [00:07:04]: And Damian were done patrolling. Another guy dies, and Damian just — wham — on the bed, and Bruce is like, hey, do you want to go see a movie? He's like — a movie, with people and things. And these are like, at the Monarch, and he was like, we'll look around. Like, it was the same way I felt when it was them talking about having a cheat day and getting, like, junk food.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:07:30]: Right?

Drew Mollo [00:07:31]: Like, that still — and I'm like, why is this so funny? And I'm like, but it's so in character, so it doesn't strike me as odd. Like, well, that's really out of character — I'm gonna complain about this. I was like, that's funny. Like, Batman and Robin seeing a movie.

Kari [00:07:47]: And it —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:07:47]: Yeah.

Kari [00:07:48]: The cheat day thing modernizes it a little bit too, because that's more of a — kind of — I don't know. I didn't. Well, I don't know. I don't do it often. Obviously they — cheat day is kind of a more recent thing, I think.

Drew Mollo [00:08:02]: Yeah.

Kari [00:08:03]: That people talk about it a lot anyway. So it's like, yeah, this — is this Batman's now?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:08:07]: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just — these are little examples of, like, what a character like Batman would have to do to be who he is. You know, like, what would it take to live the kind of lifestyle that lets you be on this crazy elite level? To be the little kid of a guy like that and grow up with him especially. But no Alfred, to kind of soften the hard edges.

Drew Mollo [00:08:34]: Right.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:08:34]: So, yeah.

Drew Mollo [00:08:36]: Do you have a —

Jeremy [00:08:37]: Like, tons of story plans in the back of your head, or like, whenever they're like, hey, we need you back on this for, I don't know, the next 60 issues, blah, blah, blah —

Drew Mollo [00:08:48]: Wow.

Jeremy [00:08:49]: Are you ready to jump back in and have these stories already in your head, or are you gonna have to go back and be like, I need time on that?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:09:02]: There's not — I don't know. Because you never know what that book is going to be, right. Like, yeah, I do have ideas for specific characters, but sometimes — you know — I do have like a notebook of ideas that are not necessarily related to a specific character, or sometimes they are, but you can find a way to kind of alter it for somebody else or use for a creator-owned story or something. I do have some things like that. Sometimes I'll just read — or think up a title that is —

Jeremy [00:09:36]: Right.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:09:36]: — compelling, or I'll just see a specific moment in my head that —

Drew Mollo [00:09:41]: Right.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:09:42]: I find compelling that I want to use in a story. Sometimes it's stuff from real life. I recently did one of those in Hulk, actually — in Hulk #27. That's — Hulk #27 was a one-and-done about — this is right after Charlie has left Hulk and he's by himself.

Drew Mollo [00:09:58]: Falling down tree.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:10:00]: Yeah. "Falling Down Tree." Yeah. That's about real people.

Drew Mollo [00:10:06]: Yeah. Trust me. Definitely want to get into that. But before we do, I think, Jeremy, you had something about — because you've been reading some of Philip's Alien work, right?

Jeremy [00:10:16]: Oh, yeah. Alien. First of all, it's great.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:10:21]: Oh, thanks.

Jeremy [00:10:22]: I flew through it in, I think, two days — six issues of the first one there.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:10:29]: Oh, thank you. Nice to hear.

Jeremy [00:10:32]: It had a lot of similarities, which was weird, because this came out what —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:10:37]: That would have been 2020 or 2021, maybe.

Jeremy [00:10:42]: Oh, 2021.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:10:43]: The first one would have been 2021, I think.

Jeremy [00:10:45]: But like, it had a lot of — I'm sitting — the droids were — are just droids. They're not symbiotes — not symbiote sentient beings. They're not what they are in the show. They had the feel that they were, they were much more than just droids. Maybe I missed something in it. But did anybody tell you that they were going to use parts of your story? Because it felt very similar.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:11:19]: No, they didn't. And there was a similar kind of thing with Romulus where I felt like there were some similar themes or beats or little things that were kind of explored in different ways than I did in the comics.

Jeremy [00:11:34]: Even like other aliens.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:11:37]: Exactly. The stuff about — having about seeing other aliens, about the way they used Ash, actually — yeah. Romulus was very similar to something I had done, but, you know, it's work-for-hire, so they don't have to check with me or anything. But there did seem to be — I did see some similar beats. But yeah, man, thanks for reading those books. I'm very proud of those books. I'm such an Alien fan. I love the Dark Horse stuff, but it all felt so different from the films, and I really wanted the comics to feel like the movies, kind of.

Jeremy [00:12:08]: Yeah, right. Did you obviously watch the show, right?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:12:13]: Yes. I'm not caught up, but I did — I have seen some of it.

Jeremy [00:12:16]: Okay. Do you get a sense of, like, oh, wow, that's kind of like my — does it feel like — not deja vu, but kind of a badge of honor? Almost like it is.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:12:33]: It feels cool. If there was something that was too similar, I'd be like, shouldn't have gotten — should have gotten a nod for that, or, you know, that should have been a conversation. But usually it's actually cool. Usually it's very cool to see something like that explored in a film — like, without spoiling anything, there's a thing — one of the hallmark elements of my Alien run is getting explored right now in another kind of media with Alien, which is really fun. And that has been a conversation. So it's — that's how it should go.

Drew Mollo [00:13:10]: There you go.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:13:11]: So.

Drew Mollo [00:13:11]: Yeah. But then speaking of aliens — I mean, one of your new books, that's only on issue two, is you returning to the world of Superman. You're doing Adventures of Superman: Book of El, which is kind of picking up on some of the stories you did previously.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:13:34]: Yeah.

Drew Mollo [00:13:35]: So what was that like, coming back to Superman? And is Adventures of Superman: Book of El something that you had planned on doing, and then because you left, you weren't able to do? And this is kind of — like, we gotta close this, I left this open, it was always intended to be that?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:13:50]: Yeah, this is — this is always how it was supposed to go. Like, this was — when I started on the War World Saga, we were not — we were exploring War World as a setting that was more than we had realized in previous stories. So it's not just a big Death Star rip-off with guns sticking out of it. It's a place where there are cultures up there, there are people up there. I tied it in — yeah. It's its own world with its own people. And it's also more than just that — it's also like a puzzle box with this piece of a dead god inside of it.

Drew Mollo [00:14:29]: Right.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:14:29]: And it's just one of seven pieces like that. So that was a big mythology that we were building, and I always knew that we had to come back to that and finish that story. So this is that story — it gets that payoff — that pays off everything that we did in the War World Saga regarding Allgood and the mythology of where he comes from and what he hopes to be again. So yeah, Adventures of Superman: Book of El is that story. It's the story of the return of Allgood. It's the story of Kryl-Ux. It's about the legacy of Superman himself and his lineage that comes after him. So —

Jeremy [00:15:07]: Right.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:15:07]: It's really exciting.

Drew Mollo [00:15:09]: I have to say, like, I was reading it and I was just like, oh my God, how many kids go through this farm? Like, I just keep wondering, do the neighbors — like, just every couple of years — huh? Just raising another bunch of kids who suspiciously strange things keep happening around your farm. The same way I feel like — like Wayne Manor, just a revolving door of orphans that we're just gonna make into heroes.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:15:41]: Well, they're not heavy on neighbors out there.

Kari [00:15:44]: It's farm.

Drew Mollo [00:15:44]: Yeah. It's a little different in Smallville — more space, fewer neighbors.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:15:50]: Yeah, exactly.

Drew Mollo [00:15:51]: But I also need to say, issue two — the twist that you did in the future with some of Superman's rogues' gallery — I was like, wow.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:16:04]: Oh, thanks. Yeah.

Drew Mollo [00:16:05]: Again, I'm trying not to say it, because I want — I want to funnel as much money into your pocket as possible. So people will be like, what are you talking about? I'm gonna go buy that book. I'm like, yes, more — give Philip more money.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:16:21]: Oh, thanks. Yeah.

Drew Mollo [00:16:22]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:16:23]: The story — when something takes place in the future like this, it gives you a lot of flexibility to take big swings. Like, it's almost like doing an Elseworlds thing where you get to kind of —

Drew Mollo [00:16:35]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:16:36]: — see where things go after the book is closed. You know, I get to tie it in with a lot of the stuff I did in Green Lantern War Journal. I get to kind of make my own statement about a lot of these characters, which is really fun. There's going to be some stuff coming up in issues four and five with the Green Lanterns that I'm really stoked about.

Drew Mollo [00:16:51]: Nice. Awesome. Great stuff.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:16:53]: Yeah, thanks. I'm sorry, it looks like you're about to say something.

Jeremy [00:16:56]: Oh, go ahead, Kari.

Drew Mollo [00:16:57]: Sorry.

Jeremy [00:16:57]: Yeah.

Kari [00:16:58]: Oh, no, no. I'm just trying to manage stuff. I was gonna say when he mentioned the rotating orphans in Wayne Manor — we're just trying to show little bits of your comics and not give too much away. Like, especially with — I just showed a little bit of the Adventures of Superman: Book of El, but I don't want people to see — just enough to whet their appetites a bit. But the one we wanted to focus on for Batman and Robin was the Gotham Cycle. And I just want to show a couple of the pages in this. But it starts — yeah, it starts off with Thomas Wayne's journal, which is just beautiful. And then summoning all of the Robins and the whole Bat-family together was just an amazing way to do all of this.

Jeremy [00:17:50]: Who's your favorite Robin?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:17:55]: My favorite — God.

Jeremy [00:17:59]: I know.

Drew Mollo [00:17:59]: They're all your babies. But it's hard, man.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:18:03]: I mean, now I'd have to say Damian, just because he's the one —

Jeremy [00:18:07]: He's a badass.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:18:09]: Well, yeah, but — he's kind of the one that's been in my care. But Damian aside, I guess I would say Jason. And I'm not saying he's the best one — I'm saying he's —

Drew Mollo [00:18:21]: Yeah.

Jeremy [00:18:21]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:18:22]: I like the idea of the broken Robin, I think, is just really powerful.

Jeremy [00:18:27]: I've been a huge fan of Damian since he came out, and, like —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:18:31]: Yeah, me too. I —

Jeremy [00:18:33]: You got so much — when he first came around.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:18:35]: I know. Well, and he still does.

Kari [00:18:38]: Like, people —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:18:38]: People just really see him as, like, the evil Robin, or the Robin — and it's like, there's so much more to him than that. When I said he gets a bad rap, it makes me want to show sides of him that are more complex and interesting and compelling and sympathetic.

Jeremy [00:18:55]: He's the product of his upbringing.

Drew Mollo [00:19:01]: And then —

Jeremy [00:19:02]: Oh, go ahead, Drew.

Drew Mollo [00:19:03]: No, I was just going to say — yeah, it's so funny because I remember when he showed up, I thought the same thing. I was like, oh, is this little — he was just such an arrogant little master assassin. But, you know, he grows on you. Gotta give credit, you know. But yeah, I agree. Damian, I think, is my favorite.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:19:29]: Yeah, he's my favorite.

Drew Mollo [00:19:30]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:19:31]: I tried to use issue 20 to try to show another side of him where — you know, he's always in motion. He just — he's afraid to stop moving because he feels his shadow touching him, and that represents what he came from. And he's trying to move on. He's trying to be this different thing, and he's trying to outrun where he came from. And when he stops moving, he feels the shadows kind of coming for him, and he feels that anxiety of — he's trying to be something different, but he's not sure he can actually — he's not sure he's going to be able to do it. And in the story that we tell — in the Memento arc and the Gotham Cycle together — we see him exploring his other lineage as a Wayne of Gotham. Because we've already seen the al Ghul thing. The challenge to writing the book is: how do we tell a story about Damian that does not over-rely on the al Ghul part of who he is, because it's been done so much?

Drew Mollo [00:20:35]: What —

Kari [00:20:35]: What you do — yeah. Sorry. I'm lagging a little bit. I'm terribly sorry, but — no, you're talking about being Robin and being Damian Wayne. I love that. That's not — like you said, that's not — actually, please keep going, because that was what I'd wanted to comment on.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:20:53]: Oh, thanks. Yeah. No — getting to see him exploring his Wayne side has been really fun. And actually, some of that comes from my own experiences. When I got into comics, I came from the music industry into comic books. And at the time, it felt like this big, bold move. Like, look at me, I can do whatever I want — no one expected this, none of the people that I know and work with would have expected — now I can make comics. And my grandfather — my mom's dad in Iowa, where he lived — he was a farmer, but he had gone to school for music, and at some point something had happened back home, and he had to kind of give it up and go home and just farm.

Drew Mollo [00:21:37]: Right.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:21:40]: But he was also a very artistic dude.

Drew Mollo [00:21:42]: He —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:21:42]: He drew a lot. He wrote — he wrote a musical for the local high school to perform. And he was always — he played a bunch of different instruments in church. He's a very musical guy, but he also made a lot of other things. And at some point my mom gave me his old journals, and I looked through there, and they're almost comics. Like, they're — there are drawings all the way through there sometimes. Like, many of the pages have multiple pictures on each one. And I had this connection to him that I did not expect. And so I went through there — I thought I was so original, like, making comics — and I go through there and I see his stuff from 100 years ago, and I'm like, I don't even have control over my own blood. Yeah. Like, I'm just enacting genetic destiny, and I actually don't have any control. That's annoying. But it was really cool to see, and I wanted to see that. I wanted Robin to kind of go through that same sort of thing — where he has this — I love that Robin draws his own comics in the story.

Drew Mollo [00:22:40]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:22:41]: I wanted him to learn that he has this connection to his Wayne side that he did not know about. So those journals were my way of doing that.

Drew Mollo [00:22:50]: Absolutely. That's absolutely fantastic. And again, you pepper your stuff with such beautiful, sentimental moments. Something that really stood out for me, talking about Adventures of Superman: Book of El — it was a moment between Superman and Lois. Where he's getting ready — it's the standard "I love you." "I'm sorry if I say it too much." She said, "It's okay. So do your thing and get back so you can tell me one more time." He was like, "Yes, ma'am." And that just stood out to me as both very iconic, and for some reason my brain's eye — I was like — is that something you do with your wife? Because that was very real to me. Like, I was like, wow. Either that's so Superman, that's poignant, or that's some real-life experience treading into fictional reality.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:23:40]: Yeah, sometimes there are moments that do find their way in from real life. And telling the people closest to me that I love them — probably too much — is something that I do. And sometimes I apologize. Sorry, I don't say it too much. I say it to my son a lot. Like, I tell my son I love him 100 times a day, and sometimes I'm like, hey, buddy — I don't say it too much, do I? He's like, you don't say it too much. Like, he just gives me a hug and he's a very loving kid. We're saying — Jar — sorry.

Jeremy [00:24:12]: How old is he?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:24:13]: 11.

Jeremy [00:24:15]: Oh, you're lucky. Two or three more years, he'll be like, don't talk to me.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:24:20]: Oh, well, teenage years. I hope not. There have been some moments — he's already starting to cut his teeth on me a little bit now and again, but —

Jeremy [00:24:29]: Oh, really?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:24:30]: But we're so close that — I don't know, man. Maybe it's naive. I think — I feel like we're gonna get through it. I never really —

Jeremy [00:24:37]: Oh.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:24:37]: I was never very close with my own dad. I really want to be different here.

Jeremy [00:24:43]: I have to say that me and my kids are way closer than me and my parents ever were.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:24:48]: Yeah.

Jeremy [00:24:49]: But it definitely changed right around the teenage years, so —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:24:53]: Yeah, I know.

Drew Mollo [00:24:54]: I know there's turbulence.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:24:56]: I know. I'm sorry to hear that. And I'm sure there's some of that coming for me, too. I mean, look, it's natural. They're going to be going through their hormone bath, turning into their grown-up versions. It's a lot. There's a lot happening in there chemically, so I get it. And I'm expecting some of that. There have been a couple of moments up till now that have already kind of happened, like — where he'll get real angry. More angry than he would have when he was a little smaller. And I see the testosterone working on him. And this one time I busted him, like, kind of flipping me off. And I hope he's not mad at me for saying that, for telling the story, because — I probably shouldn't have said anything, but — I was like, instead of reacting angrily or being all shocked or hurt or whatever — he was really embarrassed that he had been caught. And I just kind of sat with him and I was like, hey, buddy, it's okay. Just talk to me. Tell me why you're so mad. And I think when I took it kindly, that was a big deal. And he was really apologetic, and I said something like, hey, look, it's totally okay. Just save it for when I really deserve it, okay? And he was like — no, you're never gonna deserve it. We kind of hugged it out. It was actually really great. We've been even closer since then.

Jeremy [00:26:20]: You know, that's a really mature and sensible way to have dealt with that. Bravo.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:26:26]: Well, I — whenever something happens, my knee-jerk reaction is like, thank God your grandpa wasn't here for this.

Jeremy [00:26:34]: Oh, my God. Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:26:36]: Like, I was like, thank God it's me and not my dad, because he would have kicked the [bleep] out of you.

Drew Mollo [00:26:41]: Like, he was right.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:26:42]: You know, it was such a different thing. So it's actually great. Like, when those things happen, there's this kind of knee-jerk feeling of relief, right, that happens. Like, you know, it's gonna be fine. He's in a safe place and we can just get through this and let's see how this is handled. Like, it should be handled well.

Kari [00:27:02]: And you guys have such a close connection that you not only do the father-son thing — and I've seen Anders at cons, and it's so sweet because he'll ask you questions that everybody wants to know the answers to, and he's the one brave enough to ask them. With all of us fans sitting there being like, oh, we don't really want to ask because — and he'll be like, I'll ask it. And — I've seen your videos that you've been posting as you're walking home from walking him to school.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:27:32]: Oh, yeah, yeah. I forgot about that.

Drew Mollo [00:27:35]: Awesome, tomorrow —

Kari [00:27:37]: Oh, yeah. If you guys check them out on Facebook — I don't know if they're everywhere else, I just use Facebook — but, you know, he answers questions. You can send him a question, and if it's not a horrible, stupid one, he will answer it. And I don't want to, like, vouch for you and stuff, but between that and seeing you on other shows, I know that you play trumpet duets together. You have him playing, and that you have an heirloom trumpet — as you were just talking about — from your grandfather that has been passed down. And that is just —

Drew Mollo [00:28:07]: That's the best.

Kari [00:28:07]: Oh, that's so amazing that you have that tie all the way down through your family. I mean, yeah, you're following maybe a genetic blueprint or something, but — it —

Drew Mollo [00:28:17]: It's —

Kari [00:28:18]: You're making it your own. You're taking something from the past and bringing it forward, but, you know, you create it as your own thing.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:28:25]: Yeah.

Kari [00:28:26]: I was telling my mom that you played with the Glenn Miller Orchestra, and she's like — oh — I was telling her all about you because I, like, talk to my mom about my chosen — she's like, how old is he? That he played with the Glenn Miller Orchestra? I'm like, no, it's still going. It's like — yeah, the main thing back then — there's one guy left from the old crew, but he's with the new crew. Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:28:46]: Yeah, it's — yeah. So you can tell her he died in, like, '44 or '45 — whatever. But after — they did the Jimmy Stewart movie about Glenn Miller, and that's when — I think it was in 1956 — the band came back. After the The Glenn Miller Story film came out, there was this big resurgence of interest in the Glenn Miller Band. And so from then till now, with the exception of a little bit during COVID, the band's been on the road.

Drew Mollo [00:29:17]: Wow, that's awesome.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:29:19]: I was with them from '04 to '05, for about a year and a half.

Drew Mollo [00:29:23]: That's great.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:29:25]: But yeah — Anders is playing on my old horn, man. That's cool. And I don't even know how old the thing is, because it was made by this company called Quinon that used to make a lot of brass instruments. They still make stuff, but it's different now — it's like little weird little brass tools, almost. It's not musical instruments exactly. Yeah, it's like little party-device-type stuff. It's not the same thing, but back then they were a legitimate manufacturer of brass instruments. And at some point there was a fire in the factory or something, and they lost all their records — like, all of them. So there's no telling how old this thing is. I think it's at the very end of the 19th century or the very earliest days of the 20th century, but I don't know exactly how old.

Drew Mollo [00:30:09]: That's so cool.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:30:10]: But yeah, my grandfather gave it to me when I was a little kid, and now it's the one Anders learns on.

Drew Mollo [00:30:14]: It just adds to the mystery. You know what I mean? You've got your own little family mystery: how old is the horn?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:30:21]: Right.

Drew Mollo [00:30:21]: You just make it up.

Jeremy [00:30:22]: You just don't know.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:30:24]: Yeah, there's a serial number you can barely make out, but it doesn't mean anything anymore.

Drew Mollo [00:30:28]: Right.

Kari [00:30:29]: Okay, so we have an audience question. Oh, we have an audience question. I'm not exactly sure what it means. You guys might know.

Jeremy [00:30:37]: "Amazing 3 or Fantastic 4 5." I don't know what it means.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:30:43]: Yeah, apologies — I don't know that either.

Kari [00:30:47]: Please give us some more information on this.

Drew Mollo [00:30:50]: Are you saying which one you'd want more? Because, you know, we'll see.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:30:58]: Let's extrapolate. Let's say —

Drew Mollo [00:31:00]: Yeah, yeah, you can give us more. We'll clarify. I also need to say, Philip, I really resonate with that story. I own a family heirloom on my dad's side, which I'd admittedly say isn't as cool as a trumpet from some time in history that we still have yet to elaborate on. But I have a Santa suit that was passed down from my grandfather to my dad. And I have it. Well, my grandfather used to do appearances around Christmas time — like, Thanksgiving, Christmas time. So my dad would tell stories of him driving around with the roof down on — I think it was a Chevy — and just the kids losing their minds. Oh, my God, Santa's driving a Chevy. This is before Elf, so, you know, this is a big deal. And then that got passed down to my dad, who's his only son. And my dad did it for some — because, you know, someone would dress for the event. And then that got passed on to me, and I'm — you can ask these two — Christmas is a very big time for me. I'm very much the, you know, holly-jolly old Saint Nick type. Definitely the person.

Kari [00:32:16]: Who would fight the Hallmark Channel.

Drew Mollo [00:32:18]: Okay. No — whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Kari — correct —

Kari [00:32:22]: During Christmas, there's some level —

Drew Mollo [00:32:25]: But I wear it a lot at family events and whatnot. And one year I couldn't go because I was really sick, and my girl went and she put the suit on and showed up to the event. So yeah — traditions.

Jeremy [00:32:42]: Wow.

Drew Mollo [00:32:43]: It means a lot, you know?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:32:44]: Yeah. Well, I would kind of argue what you said about not being as cool as that trumpet. That sounds like a really cool tradition that you guys have passed down. So that's awesome.

Drew Mollo [00:32:55]: Yeah. But the —

Jeremy [00:32:56]: Your partner took on the —

Kari [00:32:59]: Props to Ange. Yeah.

Drew Mollo [00:33:02]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:33:03]: That's amazing.

Drew Mollo [00:33:04]: Yeah. It really meant a lot, because she just went alone with my family there, because my family on my mom's side are from PA, so it used to be a tradition when my grandparents were still here. And you know, it's something we still keep after my grandfather passed. We still keep doing it. So, you know — but again, the point is — well, I will say a trumpet is a little less — you know, I mean, sometimes I'm wearing that suit and by the end of the night I'm like, I'm dying. I'm experiencing holiday heat death.

Jeremy [00:33:32]: Because it's just like how he feels after blowing on the trumpet for an hour.

Drew Mollo [00:33:36]: Yeah. But say, you know, it just — at some point, water and cool weather, please. But super cool, man. So thank you for sharing that. That was really, really —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:33:49]: Of course. He's a good boy. I'm glad we get to do that.

Drew Mollo [00:33:52]: Absolutely. Now, without further ado — we touched on some of the — we have to talk about the big green elephant in the room. Infernal Hulk. But first, before we do that, there were some cool moments since we last saw you, and I need to bring this one up. Hulk versus Thor. We've seen this a ton, because people are always like — oh, you even saw this in the Avengers. But what you did with their animosity — not even their animosity — it was with Charlie's — you know, her wolf-god form.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:34:33]: Yeah.

Drew Mollo [00:34:33]: Like, sorry — what you did with Mjolnir was just — that was so clever, man.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:34:39]: Ah, thanks, dude.

Jeremy [00:34:41]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:34:41]: Such a fun fight. Yeah. Getting to do, like, the poem through the — especially through the painted scenes and all that. Nick is just such a force of an artist, man. Like, getting to see his Hulkscape stuff — all those painted — like, those are physically painted pages.

Drew Mollo [00:35:00]: Wow, they were gorgeous.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:35:03]: Yeah. The modern-day ones are colored by Matt Wilson in the usual way. But then the flashback pages are actual, like, paintings. Nick is so good, dude.

Drew Mollo [00:35:14]: And also, I'm sorry, I need to say another thing. He hits Thor with a submarine.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:35:22]: Yeah.

Drew Mollo [00:35:22]: That was the coolest thing. I was like, I never thought I would ever see that. And it's just — wham. I was like, is this like the Hulk version of a baseball bat? Like, good Lord.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:35:34]: We went back and forth. There was gonna be — it was gonna be a whale. Like, a living whale.

Jeremy [00:35:42]: Oh, PETA would have got you.

Drew Mollo [00:35:43]: I know. That's some Hitchcock thing, I was like — no, what are we —

Jeremy [00:35:48]: Gonna do if other people start hitting people with whales?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:35:51]: Yeah, right — exactly. It's not all made up.

Drew Mollo [00:35:56]: But —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:35:56]: But yeah, we ended up going with the sub, so — God, it was fun. That issue was so fun to write.

Drew Mollo [00:36:06]: Jar — I'm imagining him: "Hi, everybody. I'm Philip Kennedy Johnson, writer of Incredible Hulk, here to tell you: please don't hit your superpowered friends with aquatic life, okay? Protect the ocean, okay? Because if you don't, Namor is going to get you. Okay. And I haven't written that story."

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:36:28]: I guess there might have been an apology video if I'd done that, but —

Drew Mollo [00:36:33]: Yeah. And it's funny —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:36:34]: Yeah, we almost did it.

Drew Mollo [00:36:36]: Oh, my God. Because I'm sorry — when you said that, Jar — I'm just imagining, like, back in the day when the Three Stooges had to go on and explain to kids, like, we're not actually hitting each other with two-by-fours and sledgehammers. So can you stop? Like, we're not actually beating each other up. So please, please stop hitting each other. Like — so, case in point: kids, don't hit your friends with whales. Hit them with submarines.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:37:01]: Yes, exactly.

Kari [00:37:05]: One last thing before we get into Infernal Hulk — we wanted to talk about "Falling Down Tree."

Drew Mollo [00:37:11]: Oh, my God.

Kari [00:37:12]: Made so many of us just like — oh — it was, yeah, it was beautiful. So we're gonna — we're gonna show a little bit. This is Hulk #27.

Jeremy [00:37:22]: I thought it was just an easy target for people. Like, no, man — everything in this thing —

Drew Mollo [00:37:29]: No, this one wrecked me. Like, yeah — especially because, again, Philip, you —

Kari [00:37:35]: You —

Drew Mollo [00:37:36]: I love that you take the time to explain. Like, it's not just, oh, here's a story. Go. Like, you explain the lore of every monster we see, its connection to the Eldest. But even this one, man, this —

Kari [00:37:52]: I —

Drew Mollo [00:37:52]: I think it's because when it deals with kids, man — especially — like, those stories that deal with — it's just the saddest thing.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:37:59]: Yeah, I know. It hurts.

Drew Mollo [00:38:01]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:38:01]: These — this one was about real people. Well, so this was important for a couple of different reasons. I needed it to be kind of a lonely, sad story, because it's right after Charlie has left him, right? And Hulk is always — his mantra is kind of like, leave me alone. He just wants to be by himself. He doesn't want to be bothered by other people, getting sucked into our BS drama all the time. But now he is alone, and he feels the lack of Charlie, his friend, who he's kind of been looking out for. And then he gets pulled into this little tragedy. So that was one part of it. Part of it was that it's about a monster — like, we established early on in the run: monsters tend to find each other. Hulk gets pulled into the orbit of another monster, but this one's just a human man. And that's an important beat that I wanted everyone to realize — that you can be mortal and still be a monster. Like, you don't have to have amazing powers or be super-duper ugly to be a monster. We all know monsters in our real lives, and they tend to find each other, too.

Drew Mollo [00:39:08]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:39:09]: So I wanted to illustrate that. And then there's a story about real people I wanted to tell — when I was a kid in high school — oh, thanks, dude — some nice comments from the peanut gallery here. There was — I used to work construction for my stepdad, who was a contractor, a builder. And I used to just do, like, back then at least, unskilled work for them. Just like sweeping out houses and carrying lumber, shoveling gravel and just — whatever — hard but easy, the kind of thing no one else wants to do.

Jeremy [00:39:47]: There's no easy jobs in construction.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:39:50]: Yeah, well, just unskilled — I should say unskilled but unpleasant jobs. That's kind of the stuff that I did back then. And one day this dude kind of rolled into town in this flat gray-painted bus that he and his wife and kid lived in. And it ended tragically. Like, this is a guy that I got the impression was on the run from something, right? And he was always nice enough to me because I was the boss's kid, kind of, but he also had a little bit of edge to him, and I never really knew what he came from or what his story was. But one day I came out to the job site, and that bus was burned down to the wheels, and he was — he was dead inside. His wife and baby had left. They weren't there. Like, there was some kind of a fight. The wife's mother lived somewhere in the area, and she had left the night before with the baby. So he was in the bus alone, but he had, like, fallen asleep drunk with a cigarette or something. But before all that, it was just — I don't know. Anyway, there's just a story that I wanted to tell about these people that lived in this bus. And there was — that was a visual that I never quite got out of my head.

Jeremy [00:41:06]: It's got to be some good therapy for you, being able to actually express it and put it there.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:41:12]: Yeah, exactly. No, that's — there's a lot of truth to that. I mean, that story didn't scar me exactly — like some of my life experiences have. But yeah, if you're carrying stuff around, if you're able to put that out for people to experience, there is something very therapeutic about that. Like, the idea of actual therapy is supposed to help just by talking about it. To me, I have found the act of creation — like art, like artistic expression — to be way more effective, where you can actually get out the thing that's killing you and just put it onto paper, or into the world in some other kind of way.

Drew Mollo [00:41:56]: Absolutely. And it just — like I said — what I want to say is that you touched on a story that was tragic in a way that was still oddly optimistic. Because a lot of — I feel like with your run of Hulk — and I always make the joke: this is like horror Hulk. Because Al Ewing definitely had horror, but yours — I mean, you're dealing with monsters, you're dealing with — in some ways you've kind of strayed a lot from the superheroes. Like, the ones that you touched on have magic in them. The most superhero you did in the run was you had that one issue with Bucky. That's like the most you did. Everybody else — Dr. Strange, Ghost Rider, Werewolf by Night, all that — like, they're supernatural characters. They're really more horror than anything. But this — I mean, this was just your tragic ghost story. And even at the end, when he brought the killer to justice — you know, the family was everything. The kid wanted to go with his family. Like, he wanted to teach his sister how to be a hero. And it was just — I was like, oh, my God. And it was just so well done. And I'm myself a big fan of the supernatural, and I could go on and on about my beliefs on that and whatnot, but you did a really good ghost story with a really — I don't want to say plausible way — but it was really nice to read, because I feel like it's just so easy to do, like, oh, ghosts are, you know, your poltergeist or your vengeful spirit or your demon. But yeah, sometimes it's just a sad story, you know?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:43:52]: Yeah, thanks. That's what I wanted. It's — as far as the supernatural stuff — yeah, it's an important part of this run, and this felt like a good place for one of those. And the whole theme from the original Hulk stories is: is he man? Is he monster? Is he both? We're telling — we're kind of asking a similar question in this run. Like, can Hulk still be a hero, or is he just a monster now? Which is it? And Charlie — you know, she was herself a big Cap fan. She wanted to be Bucky. She wanted to be a sidekick to a great hero and someday become a hero herself. And she kind of gets pulled into Hulk's orbit and becomes a monster instead. And she's still telling herself, yeah, but we're good guys — we're heroes — we're still getting out there and helping people. Like, she's never happier than when she's out there — in like, the Sal Romero, the War Devil arc — when she's out there and they're saving the migrant workers from the monsters. She's like, this is exactly what I wanted to do, man. Like, we're out here helping people. This is so cool. And then, right towards the end, before she leaves, she's like, you know, we're not monsters, right? But we are, though. Like, we're just like all these other things we've been killing this whole time. We're no better than they are. And it's just this ongoing question — what are we? Are we heroes or monsters? Or are we both? And with this story, because it is a tragic chapter, I wanted to also suggest — I can still save people, though. Like, he tries to prove to himself and to Charlie that we can be the thing that you thought that we were.

Kari [00:45:33]: Yeah, that was double devastation back to back. Like, bye, Charlie. Hi, super-sad story. And so — yeah, but we needed it, you know. There had to be something to help cleanse some of the pain from Charlie. Like — yeah, cleanse it, but balance it a little bit. Give it a little — okay, he's trying now. At least it made a difference that she left.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:45:56]: Yeah, that's the beat that kind of springboards us forward into the Infernal Hulk thing. Like, because issues 28, 29, 30 — Infernal Hulk. Did I say something different?

Kari [00:46:06]: No, I was being —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:46:07]: Okay, I see. I see you guys.

Kari [00:46:09]: Sorry, I'm just lagging.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:46:11]: Issues 28, 29, and 30 are this big, like, ski jump towards Infernal Hulk #1. A lot of big stuff.

Jeremy [00:46:20]: I gotta ask — do you have an endgame? Like, do you already know where this goes?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:46:27]: Oh, yes. So up till now, the first 30 issues of Incredible Hulk have been —

Jeremy [00:46:33]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:46:34]: Just putting all the pieces on the board. And I wanted it to be a long series of just constant jumping-on points where people can jump on anytime and have like one issue or two issues or three issues where they don't have to read like 20 issues of back matter to catch up. They just pick one up and love it.

Drew Mollo [00:46:53]: Right.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:46:53]: That's kind of how I came into Marvel Comics, man. I didn't — I liked my comics when I was a kid — it was mostly the Marvel Team-Up books or World's Finest or whatever. It was just a one-and-done, or usually one or two issues that kind of tie together. And I mean, a lot of my most beloved runs currently have much longer arcs than that. And I just wanted to give people a chance to jump on whenever they wanted to. So that's kind of what the first act of my Hulk has been. But now we're about to start the second act with Infernal Hulk.

Drew Mollo [00:47:29]: Oh, this is the second act.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:47:31]: This is the second act. Yeah.

Jeremy [00:47:33]: Yo, how many acts do we get?

Kari [00:47:35]: Three.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:47:36]: Three.

Drew Mollo [00:47:36]: One.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:47:37]: Wolverine claws — oh, boy. Yeah. So it's — now, if you're writing screenplays, the first act is usually 25% of the whole story. It's not that long. So yeah, I mean, the duration is not the same as you'd see in a screenplay, but the first act is now complete, and the second act begins with Infernal Hulk. And then there's a third act after that.

Drew Mollo [00:48:03]: Let's go. Let's go.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:48:05]: I'm —

Drew Mollo [00:48:06]: We're ready.

Kari [00:48:07]: Ready to see some pictures. Okay. I wanted to wait until you're done.

Drew Mollo [00:48:11]: There's questions in the comments.

Jeremy [00:48:13]: Oh, I just want to make sure —

Drew Mollo [00:48:15]: He gets nicely done, Jar.

Kari [00:48:18]: Terribly sorry. Yeah, guys — I didn't see that. Okay: "Can you confirm that the Eldest will possess Hulk's body in Infernal Hulk? If so, what does this mean for your whole characterization?" Also — oh, I guess that would be different. Sorry.

Drew Mollo [00:48:36]: Yeah, it's a different one.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:48:37]: So — no, it's okay.

Kari [00:48:38]: Okay.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:48:38]: I don't want to spoil the events of issue 30. I'll say that the events of issue 30 springboard right into Infernal Hulk #1. I don't want to spoil what happens. I'll say that the design for Infernal Hulk is story-driven. Like, he looks the way that he does because of the events of issue 30.

Drew Mollo [00:48:57]: Okay.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:48:58]: So I don't want to say what happens exactly, or who's in there, who's driving the body or any of that stuff. But I will say that up until now, people have been asking a lot of questions about alters, about various Hulk alters. And I've been very resistant to answer those questions. Here's the thing: I don't really give a damn about that stuff — about which Hulk is in charge.

Jeremy [00:49:27]: Right.

Drew Mollo [00:49:27]: Who's running the show?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:49:29]: Yeah, like — every alter that we've seen up until now is just the vehicle for the story that that writer is trying to tell.

Jeremy [00:49:39]: If they —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:49:39]: If they want a Hulk to be a certain kind of way, he's an alter that fits that story. So I'm not really putting a ton of thought into, like, well, here's where I bring back this alter. And I'm not playing chess with those pieces. But I do understand there's a lot of Hulk fans that really care about that stuff. So I have found a way to involve the alters going forward. And yeah, this new Infernal Hulk is now another alter. But he is wildly different from all the other ones. We've seen scary Hulks in the past — some of them have been scary or sometimes even seem to be kind of malevolent. But not like this. Like, this is different. This is something very, very, very old, and something that has very, very bad and very specific plans for Earth. So it's the beginning of a whole new ominous.

Drew Mollo [00:50:49]: Very nice.

Kari [00:50:50]: Yeah, I gotta say that I grew up seeing, like, Hulk as a traveling Bruce Banner on the road hitchhiking thing, and Hulk smash. I was not into Hulk whatsoever until I read Al Ewing's Immortal Hulk. And I can see where people got obsessed then with all of the different alters, because the system and everything that was done was great. And then we had — what was it? There was Jason Aaron's — Donny Cates's run and stuff that all built up on different — kind of like, oh, this is how they fight each other, and Banner and this — and which one's the monster? And then you came in, and it was just like, I don't care who it is. This Hulk is fighting something. And it feels to me like it could almost be a conglomeration of them. It doesn't matter. This is the Hulk. I mean, way back in the Immortal one, it's: Hulk is Hulk. So yeah, I don't think you need to cater to anybody.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:51:40]: That's how I feel about it. I like the Hulk that people — kind of the stereotype Hulk that people — like, when you see a kid on a playground pretending to be Hulk, they kind of do the certain kind of voice. I needed the Hulk in this story to be scary, ominous — and like, he's the thing that's stalking Banner. Like, Banner's the main character of a horror film, and Hulk is the thing that's stalking him from behind his eyes. Like the girl from The Ring, or the thing from It Follows, or Smile.

Drew Mollo [00:52:13]: Right.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:52:14]: This thing that's after him. You know, I needed them to be scary and to have this kind of gravitas, and the old Hulk baby talk just wouldn't have worked at all. So that's why he talks the way he does. And also, I'm a big Conan fan. This sounds like a tangent, but there's a point. That first movie is so good. I love the books, too, but that first movie is amazing. And the second one was so bad, it killed the whole franchise. It should have been like a series of movies, like James Bond, that just never ended.

Drew Mollo [00:52:53]: Yeah, right.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:52:54]: Instead, we got one killer movie, one turd, and then an attempt at a remake more recently. And that could have been okay.

Drew Mollo [00:53:03]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:53:03]: But one big misstep for me, at least, was that Momoa just kind of talked like a bro in it. One of the things that made the character so effective in the original is that he barely spoke.

Drew Mollo [00:53:19]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:53:19]: Like, for a lot of that movie, he barely spoke at all. And that just made him so intimidating and badass. He never smiled. He hardly spoke. It was quite great. And that's —

Jeremy [00:53:30]: Sat on his horse.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:53:32]: Yeah. Like, especially in the beginning, where he was still like a — he was a slave that became a pit fighter. He was. He wasn't talking at all, man. That was cool. And when he did talk, the accent kind of made sense in that he's this guy from far away — that was raised far away — everything just kind of made sense. I wanted this Hulk to almost never speak. Like, when he does — he never ever says five words when three will do, and he never says three words when none will do. Like, he just hardly speaks, because I want him to feel intimidating and heavy. He hardly speaks. That's the voice I wanted for this Hulk.

Drew Mollo [00:54:12]: Yeah. I mean, it's all about characterization. I mean, you wouldn't make Frank Castle sound like Spider-Man, so the same thing. Like, again — God, what was it I was saying? I think it was in issue 27 — I was like, I swear to God, if the Hulk smiles at you — I mean, you're — I'm sorry. Like, they can't —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:54:38]: That was — whenever we saw that in the Immortal — it was always super scary, right?

Drew Mollo [00:54:42]: Yeah. I was like, oh, that's — that's a straight — oh, like this is not good. This is not a good smile. This is — I just had an idea — it's like when the Grinch would smile and it would just —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:54:55]: Oh yeah, and it curls up. Yeah.

Drew Mollo [00:54:57]: Wicked, wicked idea. And you're like, oh, like it's just —

Kari [00:55:03]: Having the semi-silent Hulk, though — he's still — like, you said the baby talk doesn't work. He doesn't sound stupid. He just doesn't say anything more than he needs to. Yeah — I can make my point. I'm not an idiot. I'm just — I don't care to talk to you. Is there —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:55:20]: He's just kind of annoyed with all of us. Like, there were a couple of moments that kind of sum that up. In the first few issues, there was a big cave-in on this mountain they're standing on, and Charlie's falling and he jumps in —

Drew Mollo [00:55:34]: He's like —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:55:35]: He's like, "Stupid kid. Stupid kill. Stupid —" as he's falling and catching her and all that.

Drew Mollo [00:55:41]: Right.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:55:41]: Breaking through stuff. He's like, "Stupid kid, falling in a stupid hole."

Kari [00:55:44]: Well —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:55:45]: And then later there's an issue where — somebody comes to him to try to save this place from this evil thing. And he's like, no, you know, I believe I'm leaving. They're like, we need you. We can't — this thing's gonna eat the world. He's like, "Then kill it." And they say we can't. And he's like, "Then don't." You know.

Drew Mollo [00:56:08]: Right.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:56:08]: He doesn't have much to say. He doesn't really care about us. He does some heroic things, but almost like by accident.

Drew Mollo [00:56:16]: Yeah. It just so happens it was like —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:56:19]: Big whoop, you know. But now we're about to get a completely different take, and — oh God, I'll spoil it. I shouldn't spoil it.

Drew Mollo [00:56:31]: Yeah, no, no, no, no.

Kari [00:56:35]: We have some questions.

Drew Mollo [00:56:36]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's focus. Couple more minutes. The question.

Kari [00:56:40]: Okay, okay. This is something both people are asking about here. "Will you continue your streak of trying to make the Hulk-to-Banner transformations the most grotesque in Infernal Hulk? The transformations are all dope, dude."

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:56:57]: Like, yes — the transformations will continue. But man, we're going to have to find new vehicles for the transformations going forward. We can't do them quite like we have been.

Drew Mollo [00:57:15]: That's cool.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:57:16]: Yeah. Because of what happens in the story.

Kari [00:57:18]: I'm going to pull up the pictures that you have for us on the side so that we can get those kind of being shown while you're telling us what's going on.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:57:26]: Yeah, yeah.

Kari [00:57:27]: The —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:57:29]: The Hulk-to-Banner stuff — yeah. Look at that. God, those pages, man. Nick is so good, dude. He is like the — in this page, like, you just see the rain coming down in sheets, the way that it does when it's really raining hard.

Drew Mollo [00:57:42]: Yeah, I'm zooming in on that. God damn, that is gorgeous.

Jeremy [00:57:47]: Yeah.

Kari [00:57:47]: I didn't let these guys see it.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:57:50]: Oh, really? Yeah, there we go. Yeah, man. The transformations that we've seen up till now — we're going to keep giving people versions of those things, but it won't be Hulk to Banner and back again. We'll find other equivalent kinds of transformations like these.

Drew Mollo [00:58:10]: That's cool. That's super freaking rad. Oh, my God. The bullets bouncing right off — blowing my mind.

Kari [00:58:20]: They're like — you didn't let me see it, so good.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:58:27]: Yeah, dude, he's — oh, man. I can't — I wish I could show you the page right after this. I wanted to save that for the book that we're actually selling.

Kari [00:58:34]: I have —

Drew Mollo [00:58:35]: Later, later.

Kari [00:58:38]: This one —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:58:40]: Yeah, this one's important. So — if we're looking for spoilers — show that last page again, Kari, please. The one that we just saw with his arm in the ground.

Kari [00:58:48]: Oh, yep. Give me just one second.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:58:51]: The transformation that we're seeing in 30 into issue one here — that one side, like, the lighter-color side of his body, is all like scar tissue, basically, and it kind of changes his power set. He's not just strong now.

Drew Mollo [00:59:11]: Wow, that's cool.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:59:13]: You see that coming into play on this page?

Kari [00:59:16]: Wow.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:59:17]: He's got this, like, power of corruption kind of — this is so dope. I can't wait, you guys. I can't wait for you guys to see what's coming.

Drew Mollo [00:59:25]: Oh, yeah, we can't wait either. Like, please — we're ready, guys. And now we shall forever call your Hulk — or at least your piece of you — shall never be known as Conan Hulk.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [00:59:38]: Excellent.

Drew Mollo [00:59:39]: Yes. Because now you said that. And all I want is Hulk to break his five-words-or-less and just do the "crush your enemies, grind them into the ground, drive away, to the lamentations of their women" — oh yeah, oh yeah. Everybody agreed it's giving those vibes. And Nick Klein — I just gotta say, Phil — all your collaborators, Nick, Adam Gorham, just everybody you've worked with has just been stellar. Like, a plethora of up-and-coming to just masterful horror artists.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:00:21]: Yeah. Amazing people, man. I'm going to be seeing a couple of them at this convention in New York. I'm excited to see them.

Jeremy [01:00:27]: Oh yeah, do you get claustrophobic at these big ones like NYCC?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:00:34]: No, no, I know. Yeah, like — the New York Comic Con used to be — I remember going to New York Comic Con before COVID, and the Artist Alley that they had everybody in was so horrible. Like, there's this slow-moving wave that you had no option but to be stuck in, and you couldn't really get out of it. It was so hot and gross and you couldn't really talk to anyone. It sucked.

Drew Mollo [01:00:59]: Probably being in a full-body costume in it — it is horrible.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:01:03]: Yeah.

Drew Mollo [01:01:03]: So yeah, absolutely. Ever since they expanded, it's been better.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:01:07]: Oh yeah, yeah.

Jeremy [01:01:08]: I didn't know they expanded. I haven't been since before COVID, so —

Kari [01:01:13]: Yeah.

Drew Mollo [01:01:13]: Jar, they have a whole new wing and everything. That's where Artist Alley is because it used to be on the one end and then they moved it to the other side, so it's less cramped.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:01:23]: Yeah.

Drew Mollo [01:01:24]: Now there's space again.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:01:27]: But it's still thick down there, but it's way better. And you're able to actually walk around and talk to people. It's better. I remember going back in the day — I remember going to those things — and even when I was a complete nobody, hadn't done really a book yet. Like, I was trying to. I remember thinking: I will never table here. This sucks. It got a lot better. Yeah.

Drew Mollo [01:01:52]: Yep. But no. Yeah.

Kari [01:01:55]: So, wrapping up here —

Drew Mollo [01:01:57]: Yeah. What's next for PKJ?

Jeremy [01:01:59]: Any teasers? He doesn't have enough going on.

Drew Mollo [01:02:01]: He will write more comics.

Jeremy [01:02:03]: More, guys.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:02:04]: I will write more comics.

Drew Mollo [01:02:05]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:02:06]: Everything that you've seen up till now — like, every single thing I've ever written that has been published up till now — has been while in the US Army. I just retired a couple months ago.

Jeremy [01:02:19]: Thank you for your service, by the way.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:02:21]: Yeah, sure. I mean it's — yeah. So that's done now.

Jeremy [01:02:24]: I know you did it just for me, so —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:02:26]: Just for you. Yeah, it's — but it's done, and now I'm gonna be doing more writing. So lots of cool things coming. I do have a really big announcement coming — probably in the next couple of months, I would say.

Drew Mollo [01:02:41]: Well, we'll cut, right?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:02:43]: Yeah, I hope so. Yeah. I wish I could talk about it.

Drew Mollo [01:02:49]: It's okay. It's okay. All these teases.

Jeremy [01:02:51]: Damn it.

Drew Mollo [01:02:52]: PKJ unfiltered. Everybody, let's go.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:02:56]: Yeah.

Drew Mollo [01:02:57]: Okay. Yeah, the army wouldn't approve. Let's go.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:03:01]: You're gonna be seeing a lot more Hulk. You're gonna be seeing — I do have another big series I'm coming on to next year that's going to be announced. Probably not that soon actually, but you know, soonish — next year it'll be announced. I've got new creator-owned coming out soon. Batman and Robin — the Quiet Man story continues. My Adventures of Superman: Book of El continues. There's another book that's going to get announced at New York Comic Con, I think.

Drew Mollo [01:03:28]: Sweet.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:03:29]: Like, just a miniseries I'm really excited for.

Jeremy [01:03:32]: If we are only a few days later —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:03:34]: I know, people.

Kari [01:03:37]: Captain America or Wolverine?

Jeremy [01:03:40]: As in terms of preferences, who's writing them?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:03:46]: No, we'll see.

Kari [01:03:48]: All right. We're a little over time. Where would you like people to reach out and follow you? Where do you post the most and what's the easiest way to get a hold of you?

Drew Mollo [01:03:59]: I'm —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:04:00]: I'm all over. I have a website at philipkennedyjohnson.com — two L's in Philip. I am on Facebook and Instagram and all the Twitter descendants, like X and Bluesky and Threads, and I just put the same stuff on those three — pretty much trying to find people where they're at. Yeah. And I'm trying to answer a question today. I have failed this week so far, but I'll get back on that. Trying to answer questions because I did a couple of AMAs about a month ago, and I was not able to — there were a lot of questions, more than I expected, and I was not able to answer them all. So trying to answer some of those now — just day by day. Like, when I'm walking from my car to my son's school, or back — I'll answer one of those. So just reach out anywhere. Anywhere you're at. Drop me a question.

Kari [01:04:43]: I have a weird question about that. How do you record yourself so steadily? Is there, like, an extension thing you're using, or —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:04:50]: No, no, it's just my phone in my hand.

Drew Mollo [01:04:53]: He —

Kari [01:04:54]: He —

Drew Mollo [01:04:54]: Man, he could have been a surgeon. He's got steady hands.

Jeremy [01:04:57]: Yeah, exactly.

Kari [01:04:58]: I feel like I'd be dropping it all over the place.

Drew Mollo [01:05:00]: Okay, cool.

Jeremy [01:05:02]: I want to ask the Leo question. What is it that Philip Kennedy Johnson does other than write comics — going out, saving our country and stuff like that?

Drew Mollo [01:05:14]: Don't forget playing music.

Jeremy [01:05:15]: Oh, and playing music. What do you do for just fun — kicking back and relaxing? Do you, like, build ships in bottles and stuff?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:05:24]: No. I spend time with my son every day, which is really fun. I like — so kind of in keeping with the Batman-Robin thing — we have a dry-erase board in our house where he has his list of things to get done every day, and I have mine as well. Some of it's done together. We'll exercise together. Or we have on the board — it's VWD, which is "violence with daddy," where we'll do, like, jiu-jitsu or boxing.

Drew Mollo [01:05:54]: Oh, yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:05:55]: So we'll do our VWD time. We'll go for a run or something, you know?

Jeremy [01:06:01]: I'm voting you dad of the year, man. Like, you sound really great. You want to adopt me?

Drew Mollo [01:06:07]: Oh, my God, it's my birthday.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:06:10]: I mean, yeah, dude. Happy birthday.

Jeremy [01:06:13]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:06:16]: Yeah. No, I spend time with him every day.

Drew Mollo [01:06:17]: We —

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:06:17]: We read before bed together every night, no matter what. Like, every day. Every day of his life, we've read together. So we do that. We take walks — he likes his nighttime walks. We'll walk in the neighborhood in the dark. Sometimes it's kind of for fun. Most nights we will do homework with him. My —

Jeremy [01:06:38]: And his dad writes Batman. Like, I couldn't imagine going to school and being like, yeah, you guys like comics? Well, guess what?

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:06:51]: He makes his own, dude. He makes comics himself. The city of Cleveland brought us up for the Superman movie. And Anders went, and we were in some of the places where they filmed some of that stuff. And my friend — my friend Sina Grace was up there, too. Like, Bendis was there. Sina Grace was there. Some other people. And Sina gave this great workshop at the library there — the Cleveland Public Library is friggin' amazing. And they did this great workshop. He taught everyone there — mostly kids, but adults too — taught them how to make a comic out of just a single sheet of paper. Like an eight-page comic.

Jeremy [01:07:23]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:07:23]: And Anders was there and he did it — he's made comics before that, but he got kind of obsessed with making these little eight-pagers. And so now he's still knocking those out, which is cool.

Jeremy [01:07:32]: Really.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:07:33]: Like, we'll sit down and work together. He and I will also make little stop-motion movies together.

Jeremy [01:07:39]: We could have a legacy writer.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:07:42]: Exactly right.

Jeremy [01:07:43]: That'd be really cool.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:07:44]: We'll get that done. We're — we were supposed to write —

Drew Mollo [01:07:46]: Yeah.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:07:47]: At one of the big two this year, and it fell through. But we're still gonna do that. Yeah.

Drew Mollo [01:07:51]: But Johnson and Johnson sounds like a law firm, so — you know.

Jeremy [01:07:57]: Yeah. Back in the day it was a shampoo company.

Drew Mollo [01:08:01]: There you go.

Jeremy [01:08:02]: Now it's probably Gamble.

Drew Mollo [01:08:04]: Well, Philip, thank you so much for joining us. You know, it's been great. We're really looking forward to reading Infernal Hulk and seeing where you take the big green meanie. And also, I don't think unfortunately any of us are attending New York. So, you know, safe travels. Have a great time. Make a lot of people's day with just signing your name to their books.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:08:27]: That's the hope, man. Like, I don't know — it's a really cool, fun opportunity to get to just — it's such a simple, easy little thing just to be nice to somebody and sign their — you know, like it's — it's a really cool thing. It's a cool job. So I'm looking forward to it.

Jeremy [01:08:42]: Oh, yeah.

Drew Mollo [01:08:43]: Well, in the words of your favorite barbarian — "I live, I love, I slay, and I am content." So I can't say it in the voice, because you only get one. But yeah.

Jeremy [01:08:55]: But I wish I had your memory. You're just like, dang.

Drew Mollo [01:08:58]: You're welcome. But seriously, good luck with everything, Philip. And please keep us in the loop about stuff. You know, anything news-wise comes up or anything — we'll be more than glad to promote it, you know.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:09:08]: Awesome, man. It's great seeing you. As always, thanks to the viewers that came in and asked those questions too. It's great to see everyone in here. I'll keep working hard for you.

Kari [01:09:18]: And subscribe to see more — when we ever get him back, too.

Jeremy [01:09:21]: Yeah. Yeah, actually — next year.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:09:28]: Thank you. Thank you, guys.

Drew Mollo [01:09:29]: Absolutely. So again, you know — the leave studio — the pink button will bring you to the uploads page. Just let it run to 100, and if there's any issues, you know, Kari will send Elena a link and, you know, get it all covered.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:09:40]: Yeah, sounds good. All right, guys.

Kari [01:09:41]: Thank you.

Philip Kennedy Johnson [01:09:42]: Yeah, next time.

Drew Mollo [01:09:43]: Yes. Jar, first part, then they have the other things they do. So let's save the woo-hooing for later.

Kari [01:09:53]: All right. That was great.

Jeremy [01:09:54]: That was awesome.

Drew Mollo [01:09:56]: Yeah, you are — you know what? You are sounding like Leo these days. Oh, that was awesome.

Jeremy [01:10:03]: He's such a tease with everything, though. He was like, oh, I want to tell you about this, but I can't.

Drew Mollo [01:10:11]: He doesn't want to get in trouble with Disney, you know, or Warner Brothers. That's two titans. You do not —

Jeremy [01:10:16]: Yeah, that's true.

Drew Mollo [01:10:17]: You know, you don't want to get on the end of that legal team. Like — excuse me, PKJ — excuse me. No, no, no.

Jeremy [01:10:24]: I can't wait to hear more about his alien adventures.

Drew Mollo [01:10:32]: Or, yes — his alien expansions. Yes.

Jeremy [01:10:36]: There you go.

Drew Mollo [01:10:37]: Got you, buddy.

Kari [01:10:43]: [laughs]

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